Lose of the traditional punishment story

Perhaps I was that naive for a while? It’s complicated for several reason. First of all, spanking has always been sexual to me - in fact, my first memories of sexual arousal are about spanking, and only many years later did I realize that the sweat on my brow and that strange feeling in my stomach had something to do with sex (well, first I had to figure out what was sex was). Since then spanking has been some kind of parallel sexuality to me; as for many other spankos, it’s not the prelude to anything - it’s a goal in itself. This is almost impossible to explain to non-spankos (and if you succeed, they are likely to consider you sicker than they originally thought), and the lack of common ground opens up for all kind of misunderstandings. I was incredible slow in understanding the consequences this might have.

The second reason I would like to mention, is that since my spanking interest has been there since childhood, I have never given the middle aged man/young girl-combination all that much thought. When my fantasies started, I was of the same age as these girls, and somehow it has remained that way - if not in real life, so at least in my imagination. If a middle-aged man showed up in my fantasies, he was likely to be the girl’s father and not some projection of me - and I’d be happy just to watch.

A third reason, is that my sympathy and my identification is almost always with the spankee. It’s their experience and their emotions I’m primarily interested in, and it’s difficult to think that you are exploiting someone when all you are trying to get into, is their head!

Sometimes I read different threads on the forums and think the discussions would work better as a single thread. In this case, I agree with BashfulBob, that some of the comments made in this thread deserve their own thread. Bob also pointed out that the comments were numbered. Something I never noticed.

I think Hotspur may be suggesting time and place are factors. I think so too. I wrote a comment which reflected post WWII and my country. Maybe I'll use that to start a new thread.

I reread Smachtai's latest post (#36, lol). He's clarified his thinking quite nicely. Like BashfulBob, I'm not offended by Smachtai's definitions of "traditional" and "modern" spanking. It just so happens, that I like both.

When I read a traditional story, I like to imagine myself as the spankee. I still want to know the emotions and thought processes of both parties. But, since it's a punishment, I want to feel that it's deserved. That the punishment fit the crime. I want to believe that the spanker has performed ( preferably her) righteous duty and that I have atoned and been forgiven. Balance has been restored. Pain is part of the process. That's my spin on traditional.

One type of modern style spanking I used to enjoy is M/F, given otk. As much body contact as possible. No matter how the spanking proceeds, as a male, I pretty certain I'm going to enjoy it. I feel obliged to figure out what the female wants. I try to meet her expectations. I enjoy her pleasure. If we're having straight sex I'm not so accommodating.

My preferred modern, dynamic is F/M, DD. For that I need a caring, loving and willing partner. Sometimes the spankings are traditional. I need that. Sometimes the sexual elements, particularly aftercare, is most important. Role reversal is also nice. Sorry if I'm "over generalizing based on personal experience".

I would hate to see either traditional or modern stories disappear. I don't think they will.

My experiences are now only memories. Alas, " My best days are yesterdays." I'm just happy I remember them.

When I was growing up there was a HUGE number of school stories involving spanking (almost always boys) plus an abundance of comic strips involving both boys and girls in domestic spanking, though obviously pre-pubescent so no arousal was even hinted at. I THINK there were stories involving girls being spanked or caned in girls' comics too though they tended to be set in a faroff generation (e.g. Victorian) with casual cruelty. So basically if you want to write a credible traditional school spanking story you have to make it historical and IMO preferably not sexual whereas the modern story involving people enjoying their kink, often with a sexual element, is in many ways easier to conceive and write though you still have to find the "angle" that makes the story interesting.

I don't yet see any female contributions in this discussion although we do have a large contingent of female readers and authors and I'm always interested in what they want to see from a story here.

BashfulBob

In post #39 you referenced reposting my lengthy post #32 in a new thread. Just to let everyone know I did repost it on a new thread. However, the new post disappeared without even a curtesy comment back to me.

On reflection I am both disappointed and relieved. I am relieved because the points in my post #32 will make a basis for some interesting (and relevant) stories, and I would like to focus on those stories given my new strong motivation to write them. I am disappointed because of the lack of trust of the power-that-be deciding that I could not mediate the discussion appropriately. I was looking forward to an ernest conversation and the potential for enlightenment by those whose ability to think both thoughtfully and critically have been demonstrated by their writings on this board. This decision sadly yet unironically mirrors the times we are living in.

I guess this puts a bow on the request to repost. Sorry to disappoint.

Gourmet

I noticed that your thread was removed. I don't know the reason(s) why. And I won't speculate. I think your post (#32) makes many different points. I think your trying to link those points to define a culture.

I suggest you start a thread with fewer debatable points. Maybe pick one. Later, you can pick another.

If you don't like labels, don't use them. I can't speak for "Western society", " The Left", or "Cancel Culture". Again, pick one of your points, refine your arguments (like Smachtai did) then post. If I respond, I'll do so as an individual.

Noah

I have no issue with the post being removed, but I was not given any explanation for the post removal. I have a grievance with the absence of an explanation.

Perhaps too many people are unaware of the slights implied by providing an answer with "missing intentions" or "no intention provided at all". Consider the following dialogue in response to a disagreeable conversation: "I will pray for you". Such a reply begs the question, "What exactly are you praying for me for?" In the context of the disagreeable conversation, the absent intention most likely meant "I will pray for you to go to hell", or some other unspoken reply consistent with the disagreeable conversation.

I wish I had identified the posts I was responding to, specifically posts #16 and #25. That was my failure to articulate clearly.

You make a fair point about "speaking in labels." Smachtai wasn't speaking in labels, although his posts were interpreted as speaking in labels by many. Throughout the thread, Smachtai patiently explained and refined his intentions. I have a deep respect for people who respond as Smachtai did.

No one responded to Smachtai like they did to some of my posts. I have a bad habit of responding using the same "language" (in the broadest sense) the commenter used to communicate clearly.

I tried to do the same by coming up with the analogy, autotune, to try to build a way to have a conversation about a complex topic, but there were no more direct words to converse with. I was trying to transition the conversation away from the label "Cancel Culture", apt as it was. Note that cancel culture isn't really a culture so much as it is a "claim-to-moral-power-grabbing movement" aimed at shutting down people who don't hold views (and realities) that threaten their claim to moral power. {Sigh}

Noah, I really appreciate your advice and helpfulness, but I do think I am done with the topic for now.

Wow, Smachtai's original post has initiated a remarkable thread both in its length and the depth of the responses. I intended to contribute early on, but each time I prepared to do so the thread had lengthened, and I lacked the time to read all the contributions. Having now done soo, I will still respond to his original question which asks why a certain type of story, previously common, has been substantially replaced by another type.

The first type, "traditional" deals with non-consensual spankings (the spankee would rather it wasn't happening) delivered as a punishment even if the spanker enjoys doing it. The second type, "modern", deals with consensual spanking (the spankee actively seeks it out, whether they enjoy the actual delivery or not) and the spanker enjoys the delivery.

I am sure that Smachtai's theory that there are less traditional and more modern stories is correct, and I will try to answer his question. All answers should be read as being prefaced with "in my opinion".

So why the change?

Spankings as punishments were still a part of life in the mid 20th C and art tends to imitate life. They are no longer.

In the 40s--60s we generally, but also me, had experienced punishment spanking, canings, slipperings etc. We knew they were painful and unpleasant. It never occurred to us/me that there might be spankees who would actually enjoy a severe spanking, so the idea of realistic (hard) spankings for mutual pleasure just didin't occur to us. If spankees didn't enjoy it, then people wouldn't write about them doing so, or "believe" it in a story.

If someone wanted to write realistically about a consensual spanking, it would need to be a mild one, and where's the fun in that?

The same has happened with vids. I was an early fan. The Janus and Roue vids were generally of punishment spankings, but relatively mild. The models didn't want to be spanked hard and the film makers didn't think they would be able to persuade them. Gradually the vids changed and, increasingly, showed quite severe spankings, some of them obviously enjoyed by the spankees. As they became more severe, they also became more "explicit". It is, of course, possible that this (both aspects) had something to do with fear of the law. Now there are probably more consensual vids than others--generally quite severe.

An earlier contributor to this thread observed that we no longer throw Christians to the lions or burn heretics. He could have observed that prostitutes are no longer stripped and whipped "at the tail of a cart" as it trundles around the town centre. Scholastic and judicial CP is mostly outlawed as is capital punishment. Society's views of such things have changed and, in this, we are becoming nicer. It may be uncomfortable to write about non-consensual spanking or enjoy reading about it. It suggests that we are not aligned with the views of society, or modern thought. Furthermore, realistic non consensual is likely to involve non-adults--now a big taboo.

Many, if not most, of those who consume spanking stories never experienced or observed punishment spankings. It is, I think, generally accepted that sexual peccadillos are often derived from actual experience.

Personally I write and enjoy both kinds of story. Sometimes, however, when writing traditional, non-consensual stories, I wonder at the possible reactions of my family, friends and others were they to read them. I feel no such qualms when writing modern, consensual stories.

In summary, I think it is mostly down to art imitating life. Real punishment spankings are mostly a thing of the past and that is likely to influence the stories being written now.

Geoffrey Stirling.

PS The contributions to this thread have convinced me that spankos are, on the whole an intelligent and erudite lot!

I will make two points, then I am out of this thread:

1) The golden age of this platform, circa 2011-2013, saw vast more interactions between readers, publishers, and posters. This wasn’t 40-to-50 years ago, this was only a little more than a decade ago. This was the grand age of the ‘traditional’ spanking stories in this board. Now we are claiming to be in the ‘enlightened’ age and the decline of interaction is starting to threaten the continuation of this board. Are we saying here that this loss of board interaction is from people becoming more enlightened? Or, is there a darker reason why people are unwilling to share, a darker reason effecting not only this board but civilization as a whole? Keep this in mind: People’s freedom to pursue sexual topics/activities on places like the Internet act as a “Canary in the Coal Mine” that serves as a sensor/measure as to the health of civilization. Our canary ain’t looking so good.

2) The “fact” I am most troubled by is the mass spread of mental health issues among young people, a severe problem that was not a problem at all 40-to-50 years ago, and has been exploding in numbers over the last decade, a date range that uncomfortably corresponds to the degree people are willing to contribute on this board. Did people becoming more informed start causing them to have mental health issues? That is the implied but unspoken conclusion here. I am not saying that the lack of ‘traditional’ punishment in the home is the cause. But I strongly suspect that what filled the vacuum left by the loss of traditional punishment is something very dark, that no one is willing to look at or acknowledge for fear that they might see their own hand in contributing to this grave harm. And whatever the possible solutions might be to this crisis, bringing back ‘traditional’ discipline is not among them, nor should it be. The damage is too far gone.

Flattery will get you everywhere. Of course, I'm kidding. What I look for most of all is kindness. On a site like this, I'll settle for civility. If someone asks a question on the forums or makes an observation, I should make a rational, considered response. I admit my initial response to Smachtai was more emotional than rational. I'd like to thank Smachtai, and now Geoffrey for trying to keep this thread on point.

I think the discussion revolves around what we perceive as a shared culture. In particular how the culture has changed from the post WWII era until now. And how closely we identify with the culture. I'm definitely a contrarian. And as such, I'm less concerned with whether my thoughts "are aligned with the views of society."

I see elements of the "traditional" and the "modern" spanking story occurring throughout history. There is punishment. There is rapture. And everything that lies between.

Let me preface the following with "in my opinion".

Severe is a relative term. And it's a variable. Maybe its meaning is more clear cut when we are children. Or when it's used in a judicial setting. But I don't think it is inappropriate to use it within a "modern" spanking story.


I am convinced of the efficacy of Consensual/nonconsent in adult relationships. This a topic by itself. Fun has nothing to do with it.


I think my needs were shaped in childhood and/or are part of my nature. If they were shaped, they were shaped by the absence of actual experience. Which is an experience in itself? I found myself yearning for and thinking I desevered to be spanking. I think my unfulfilled need metastasized.

I'm in general agreement with Geoffrey's post. I appreciate what he had to say and how he said it. However, there is one thing I didn't understand. He wrote about society, "we are becoming nicer.". Who is this we that he is referring to?

Noah asks: However, there is one thing I didn't understand. He wrote about society, "we are becoming nicer.". Who is this we that he is referring to?

Interesting question. It clearly doesn't mean everyone and is, because I don't really know other cultures well enough, limited in my usage to "Western culture".

It is my personal opinion, but I have heard it voiced elsewhere. I think it means Mr and Mrs Everyman and those who purport to speak for them and is evidenced by the fact that the punishments we inflict on criminals are less barbaric and that on the whole we no longer seek entertainment based on cruelty or killing. There are of course exceptions--shooting and fishing, fox hunting etc, (and there are voices raised against them) but we don't suspend cats in cages over fires or bait bears, turn out to watch public executions or floggings.

Geoffrey Stirling.