Lose of the traditional punishment story

Geoffrey, I was being facetious. In real life, nobody takes me seriously. You caught me by surprise.

I saw an interview with Ken Burns. The documentary film maker. He said that when he was out walking, he waved at everybody. Most people waved back. Two things occurred to me. One, he doesn't live in my neighborhood. Two, that is nice.

I'd like to relate niceness, or kindness, to the topic of this thread. I don't think kindness is necessary in traditional spanking stories. It may, or may not, occur. Good intentions are not required. In essence, the spanker dictates the action. The spankee submits. A punishment occurs.

I think the modern spanking story requires a degree of kindness. At some point, there had to have been a mutual understanding. A voluntary submission. It's two people deciding that spanking serves both their needs. I think that when someone does something that helps someone else out, that is a kindness. A spanking doesn't have to be for punishment. If it is, severity is a separate issue. A spanking can be for any reason you can think of. Or for no reason at all.

I hope my thinking hasn't drifted too far off topic.

Ah, but that doesn't mean we don't WANT to.

In reading more responses I can't help but be perplexed by what feels like an incongruous puzzle. There seems to be a disconnect in motives. I see two viewpoints....or at least what seems to be what folks are saying:

1: If someone is interested in consensual spanking stories, they are likely kinky and see spankings as sexual

2: If someone prefers "traditional" stories with nonconsensual comeuppance, they are not, and don't.

Now, the nuance of whether every consensual spanking among adults is purely sexual, partly so, or not at all, is a topic for another thread, but even I (who concede that while some spankings aren't overtly sexual) must admit that my overall interest in the topic is. From past experience here, I have certainly felt that most readers here see the sexual element even more than me to the point that a story that ventures away from that seems to disappoint them. I have often been told that a tragic twist has ruined an otherwise good story.

So, I feel like I'm missing something. What is the attraction here? Are people seeking titillation or not? Are there a significant number of readers interested in narrations of traditional nonconsensual punishments for ....what? Historical relevance? Nostalgia? A longing for 'the good old days' of 'six of the best' in schools? Is the sexual aspect in some way offensive?

Similarly, others seem to be saying spanking is entirely sexual, and yet, if so, is it not "kinky"? Is spanking sexual in an otherwise entirely normal way that makes any assertion that it may be just one tool in an otherwise loaded toolbox of various kinks offensive? Geoffrey made a comment about a kinder society where shooting and fishing have lagged behind, so I'm wondering, if there will be a time when a spanking story where the protagonist has gone fishing prior to a spanking, will be considered inappropriate content? LOL "Spanking is perfectly normal, but _____________(perhaps fishing?) is not, and it upsets me." You have no idea how frequently I have seen this viewpoint online. And, I'm sorry to say this to anyone who feels this way, but......it's hysterical. It actually is the motivation behind my comedic story "The Worst Spanking Story Ever".

So, someone PLEASE explain this to me. Are spanking stories intended to titillate or not? Are they supposed to be sexual, or asexual, or sexual-but-only-in-the-way-I-like? Are they all....kinky, or are only the consensual ones? Do they need to be fair? Can a story be upsetting and still be a 'good story'? I would be particularly interested in the OP's motives in coming here to read spanking stories.

Greetings All,

Up to now, I have remained on the sidelines, mostly sitting on my hands because the dialogue reminded me of why I dropped out of grad school just short of the PhD (one of my few regrets in life). I didn't want to sit with a bunch of old academics endlessly debating something relatively inconsequential (if I'm offending anyone, I apologize). That I opted out and devoted more than forty years to health care is a story for another day.

Anyway, how one reads, views, writes, or otherwise interprets a spanking story is probably formed by a variety of complex factors which we are hard pressed to understand. We are all individuals with unique life experience. Still, although we come to the subject of spanking from very different perspectives, we are, nevertheless, bound together by our love of the subject. For what it's worth, I view spanking (in any form or context) as an act of intimacy and love (i.e. the spanker wouldn't bother if he/she didn't care about the spankee). This has grown out of my own life experience and is generally reflected in my stories. If you wish to spin that as something sexual or kinky, please feel free - I think somehow those feelings are all interconnected anyway.

Okay. That's my two-cents worth. Carry on and I'll go back to sitting on my hands.

If you only have a few regrets in your life, I envy you.

I also want to experience spanking as "an act of intimacy and love." But I don't think that's always the case. Speaking personally, I've never had sex with someone I didn't love. That also applies to spanking. I've been lucky. Note, I'm using past tense. At my age, and in my situation, I'm reassessing my options. In the meantime, like warthur, "I'll go back to sitting on my hands."

kdpierre

Besides your two numbered questions, you're asking a lot of other questions. Are you asking questions as an author trying to understand his readers? Are you asking philosophical questions? Are you seeking enlightenment? If you're asking advice, the only thing I would tell you is, "Second star to the right, and straight on till morning."

However, you're making interesting observations and asking legitimate questions. I'm not the OP. But I obviously have time on my hands. So, I'll respond

I read a story where the author included a twist at the end. I commented that "I felt like I had been sucker punched." But I really didn't mind being sucker punched. Sometimes the unexpected twist, tragic or not, elevates a story.

I like stories that have sex and spanking. They are both "bonding" experiences. Sometimes sex, as aftercare, completes the experience. Like warthur, what I most want is "intimacy and love".

But I can appreciate spanking stories that don't focus on sex. Some "modern" stories can create powerful emotional responses that aren't sexual.

"Are people seeking titillation or not?" Titillation, by definition, is a mild word. Sometimes that's all that I, and others, need. As for "traditional", "narrated" spanking stories. I like narration with perspective. Narration should increase my understanding of the story. If the narration is merely descriptive, it better be damned good.

I do think of myself as kinky. I prefer that description over abnormal or pervert. The word "normal" confuses me. As for what people on LSF want to read, the best indicator is what they actually do read. Then read the comments.

I'm having trouble envisioning a future where "spanking is perfectly normal". I can envision a future where more things are considered Inappropriate or are even prohibited. I don't find that "hysterical". I find it scary. You ask, "Can a story be upsetting and still be a 'good story'?" My answer, your post is upsetting but it's still a good post.

Interesting idea that spanking stories can be non-pornographic (ie, not primarily intended to arouse the reader). Not a thought that had previously occurred to me. I have just read kdpierre's "The Worst Spanking Story Ever." It was extremely clever, very inventive and, for me, entirely unarousing. Probably because most of the activities described do not appeal to me. I loved it for its cleverness.

So, the idea has got me thinking. There are those, not me I have to say, who enjoy reading books which feature extreme violence, even torture. I suspect most of them are not aroused, indeed, I hope so. I fervently hope that those readers would not want to practise what is described. I think their enjoyment comes from the frisson of horror and revulsion and the overwhelming feeling of "Thank God that is not happening to me." I suspect the same emotions affected those who attended public executions.

Spankings are an easy thing around which to build a story. The elements are all there--misbehaviour, discovery, sentencing, preparation, execution, reactions and finally, forgiveness. They can be as formulaic as a trashy romance. Perhaps even more so if they are game-playing between consensual lovers.

So, I throw it open to the readership--are there those who enjoy reading, or writing, spanking stories despite not being aroused, and if so, what's the attraction?

Geoffrey Stirling.

I have been reading this thread regularly and I have had responses in my mind just needing to put pen to paper. And then the thread takes an unexpected direction and I find my responses out of tune and I hesitate. But to preface my remarks with a thanks to all the members who took the time to post on the thread as I have really enjoyed the different viewpoints expressed.

To answer the more recent questions first, kdpierre questioned whether" If someone is interested in consensual spanking stories, they are likely kinky and see spankings as sexual whereas if someone prefers "traditional" stories with nonconsensual comeuppance, they are not, and don't.".

I don't think that was a question I ever intended asking but since it is out there, I would answer that both story scenarios are likely sexual as we read and write them. But in the traditional story, does the spanker see their acts as sexual or more in the way of duty ( e.g. teacher) or responsibility ( e.g. parent) and , perhaps more interesting, does the spankee? I think that was the nuance of my observation between the 'modern' and 'traditional' story.

Reflecting on many responses here , I am inclined to see that the societal changes that have happened since the middle of the lasty century have had an affect on the type of story being written and enjoyed today. And, in case there is any doubt, I fully welcome those societal changes. I am glad schools and homes no longer resort to corporal punishment and that new writers no longer have those personal experiences as the source of their inspiration.

I might have been better questioning why we ( or maybe just I) enjoy stories of experiences which , in real life, I did not. From many of the post here I can see that many people came to spanking as something they never experienced and the attraction was maybe coupled to intimacy or contact. But for those of us old enough to have experienced corporal punishment, the interest is strange.

I do believe that , for me at least, the submission to authority is a central element to the enjoyment of story. There is also another aspect, a subconscious remembrance. Anxiety, on behalf of the spankee, before the spanking is replaced by a certain calm afterwards. Perhaps it is this calm that is so attractive? Whatever the reason, I know in my own case that there was a journey from fearing the punishment to finding aspects of the whole thing sensual, even erotic. For the same reason, memory, I find stories with excessive strict punishments to be off-putting.

So I would answer the question "... are spanking stories intended to titillate or not?" with a resounding yes, but the aspect that we individually find titillating may be different to the aspects others find titillating.

Just a final observaion. I am not too sure that the terms 'consensual' and 'traditional' fully describe the two scenarios i outlined as 'modern' and 'traditional'. The differences I was seeing was between the traditional , submissive, story and between the 'let's enjoy a kink together' type story. The latter, by definition almost, lacks that anxiety and true submission. Additionally, many 'traditional' stories also included 'consent' even if no explicit. In the movie I mentioned earlier, Das Goldene Ufer' , the maid observes that receiving the cane was preferable to foraging in the forest , and any implication that living in the big house and consenting to punishment from the lady of the house was better than the alternative. Not desire for punishment but consent in the setting of the 'big house' . In the same way, apprentices in early 20th century might come with punishment from the master but the apprentice would implicitly consent by taking the apprenticeship. It didn't mean though that they either desired or enjoyed the punishment.

I am not too sure if I have clarified my thoughts or just added to the confusion. If the latter, then perhaps it will only add to the different points of view.

Noah
Thanks for the response, let me see if I can hit your points quickly.

The numbered points were not meant as questions but as my take on what I thought I heard being espoused and was curious if these points were accurate (to the points of the thread) or not. I was not looking for advice or understanding of readers in general, but rather an understanding of the OP's position with regard to 'traditional vs. modern'.

What I was trying to get across, and seemingly didn't, was that I would 'think' that anyone coming here as a reader is doing for some level of titillation, from mild to possible wank fodder, and that if that is the case, why would there be a lament over the passing (which I do not think IS a passing, because there are still PLENTY) of the 'traditional' story, where a miscreant is punished nonconsensually for some misbehavior whether at home or at school, which to me seem less titillating than other types of stories?

All of my other points revolved around the seeming incongruity of sexualizing something that seems objectively less sexual than other things which the same people find either turn-offs or downright offensive. That was my reason behind the question of whether an interest in spanking is inherently kinky. And when people seem to feel their interest in spanking IS somehow more pure than say an interest in enemas, as if one was 'normal' but the other gross, or in this case, that a nonconsensual school punishment is sexy, but a consensual one between a kinky couple is less so, I find it ironic.....and thus (since I love irony) hysterical.

To make this point, I asked what the motives were for wanting 'traditional' stories, and offered the wry possibility of nostalgia, rather than the most likely motive, which is titillation.

First thank you sincerely for the comment on my story. I'm glad you liked it.

To answer your question, while I certainly love a story that gets my juices flowing, to be honest, few do. In fact, very, very, very few do. So, instead of hoping for a level of titillation quite likely to be frustrated, I look for stories ABOUT the lifestyle, particularly ones with couples that are either F/M or F/F engaged in a DD relationship, where some plot point or theme is relatable to my own experience. (BTW, otkgirl, has done several of these in the past, and while they are not overtly titillating, they always make me smile as I see myself in her characters).

My wife is 17 years younger than me, and she's the boss.....with the paddle to back that up! LOL Give me a good age-reversal story, and I'm grinning. This type will titillate.

Consent to a spanking that is utterly unfair, just because the roles define the submission is another appealing theme for me. This type WILL also titillate if done well.

Then, there's kinky cleverness. I absolutely have no desire whatsoever to read another story that follows the pattern of: Miscreant of whatever age or gender, is caught doing whatever...... among a litany of things with the most likely being: smoking, drinking, lying, tardiness, and stealing......and then punished, whack-whack-whack by some authority figure. So, when Cindy2 wrote about Plato's Cave, it was marvelous. Or when any author just writes something different but it still relates to me as a lifelong spanko, I'm just thrilled.

Darkness. Write a dark story with disturbing twists and turns, and I'll follow you down that tunnel to the end.

And humor. Make my inner spanko laugh and you are my literary hero of the moment....even if both of my hands are nowhere near my crotch. LOL