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Goodgulf
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Canada
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#11 | Posted: 31 Jan 2011 17:58
The English language usually has many ways of saying the same thing.

For example:
I know not who ate the cookies.
I have no knowledge of who ate the cookies.
I do not know who ate the cookies.
I don't know who ate the cookies.

All four lines say the same thing. Which is most correct? It depends on the speaker. The last one is the one that most people would say, but at various times using contractions was a sign of poor education.


That said, here are a couple things that most grammar checkers look at.
a) Short, choppy sentences tend to get flagged as bad.
Something like "I saw a dog. It was a brown dog. It ran across the yard." usually flagged at a lower level than "I saw a brown dog running across the yard".

b) long run on sentences get flag.
Something "I saw the brown dog and it was running and it crossed Mrs. Smith's yard and ran up her steps then ran down and then it was licking itself and then ..." is technically allowed (because of all the links) but that should really be broken into shorter sentences.

c) short paragraphs get flagged.
If a paragraph is only a sentence or two long then some grammar checkers don't think you know how to work paragraphs.

d) long paragraphs get flagged.
Too long and most grammar checkers don't think you know how to use paragraphs.

e) Too many short words.
Most grammar checkers think that longer words mean you have a better vocabulary.


Before you get to hung up on those things, you should test the grammar checker. Take a best selling book. Either type in a few pages of it or find an ecopy and paste that in your word processer. Better yet, got get some public domain work like Dickens' Great Expectations or something by Mark Twain or another great writer whose work is now freely available.

Test that and see what level the grammar checker says they work at. You'll probably be surprised by how low some of those great writers score.

Goodgulf

edb
Male Author

Spain
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#12 | Posted: 31 Jan 2011 18:10
I really would not worry about either the length of the story, within reason, or the length and words used in a story. Just write what feels comfortable for you, and your enjoyment of writing will shine through to the reader.

I have written a number of stories, some stand alone and some serials, and the length of each story or chapter have dictated themselves by the picture I wished to paint. Some scenes can be briefly described, whilst others require more detail if I am to convey to the reader what I am trying visualize in my own mind, and I certainly do not keep an eye on the word count as I am writing. They say a picture can paint a thousand words, but the obverse is also true; I have found the most difficult story I have written was for the 500 word challenge (maybe I'm just verbose!).

Finally, I certainly wouldn't take any notice of a computer programme telling me how I should write; god forbid, my old English master would be turning in his grave if he thought I was listening to a techno computer programmer when it came to using the rich tapestry of English language that can bring the written word to life. He'd probably have given me five hundred lines to write out, or worse!

rollin
Male Member

USA
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#13 | Posted: 31 Jan 2011 19:20
It's all about style and the tone you are trying to create for your characters.

For example: He gazed longingly upon the lovely Elizabeth as she emerged from the pond, water running off of the fair skin in rivulets. Then reminding himself of his duty, he flexed the switch between his hands. She'd been warned to stay out of the pond.

Or: Damn if that gal ain't the prettiest thing in the Ozarks, thought Jed as Daisy stepped up on the bank. But swimmin' alone in the creek like that. He flexed the switch. I done told her...and told and told her. She's due a lickin', looks like. Gotta do what I gotta do.

I don't know how a computer program would score either piece, but each seems to me to be appropriate for the setting and tone of the scene--one could be a estate in the Hamptons, circa 1890 and the other could be Arkansas in 1930.

Pay no attention to computer programs, but write with clarity and write to paint a word picture.

canadianspankee
Male Member

Canada
Posts: 1686
#14 | Posted: 1 Feb 2011 00:58
Thank you all for the comments, my problem is sometimes I get stuck on statistics and the checker to me is another stat ( seems to me there was someone else who liked statistics also). I will take the advice which was all basically the same advice from everyone, dump the checker and just write. Thanks again, you made me feel good about my writing.

opb
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#15 | Posted: 1 Feb 2011 16:10
If I may mke a comment? Thanks.

Ignore what WP grammar checkers say. This is particularly apposite when attempting to write authentic-sounding dialogue. People do not speak in whole sentences, they abbreviate. They don't use regular construction. Sometimes a sentence is only a verb, or a noun.

A good trick I have found is if possible to read the work aloud, recording it onto something and then listen to how it sounds (privately). I was amazed at how a word which looks OK in text can sound out of place when spoken. As people usually have an inner voice when they read this is how the reader consumes the work, so it pays to test the text in this way.

njrick
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USA
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#16 | Posted: 2 Feb 2011 01:41
opb makes a good point about dialogue which I would like to comment on (and no I'm not obsessed about comments; that's a totally different thread). However good or poor a job a style-checking program might do in rating a 'level' of non-fiction wirting (and I don't even put too much stock in it there), it would totally fall apart in fiction, particularly if there is any significant amount of dialogue, for all the reasons opb states. And although dialogue poses the biggest problem, it's not the only one. As rollin pointed out, fiction is about narrative, which, in its best forms, should be pleasurable when read aloud - how it sounds, and the rhythm of the language is equal in importance to a clear presentation of ideas (which is the focus of non-fiction writing).

DannySwottem5
Male Member

England
Posts: 128
#17 | Posted: 3 Feb 2011 20:02
I don`t know much at all about writing but I love to read stories. I have read many stories where the writer`s technique seems lacking in some respects but the story has been a darn good read despite that. For me it`s all about getting the idea across and entertaining me and if the spelling or syntax isn`t quite up to scratch it`s not a big deal really. More power to those who have the guts to put a story on sites like this one I say, I know I couldn`t do it. It isn`t Shakespeare when all is said and done.

Artofzee
Male Author

USA
Posts: 7
#18 | Posted: 4 Feb 2011 11:29
Here's a way to go about it. Get the story written while you have the urge. Set it aside for a while, maybe a day or two. Then look at it with fresh eyes and see if it strikes you as being as good as when you wrote it. Inevitably, you will find a lot of words you can get rid of. This "tightening" of the story always makes it better.

Specifically:
1. Be on the lookout for needless adjectives. They are story killers and the mark of an amateur writer. If they're really not necessary, get rid of them. Same is true of adverbs.

2. Use similes sparingly. Metaphors are always stronger.

3. Avoid over-description. Given the slightest clues of what a character looks like, a reader will create his/her own image and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't waste words trying.

4. Strive to keep sentences no more than 15 words in length. There are frequent exceptions to this rule, but readers generally don't like long, complex sentences.

5. Likewise, keep paragraphs short. Two or three sentences is usually plenty.

6. For online writing, double space between each paragraph. Large blocks of type intimidate readers.

7. Dialogue is one of the best tools in your arsenal. It can accomplish a lot with few words: Examples:

Darcy plopped her books on the kitchen counter.
"Mr. Edwards called today," her mother said without looking up.
"Mr. Edwards? H-he called here?"

Darcy plopped her books on the kitchen counter.
"Mr. Edwards called today," her mother said without looking up
"So what."

A few words of dialogue completely changed a character and altered the direction of the story,
didn't it?

Guy
Male Author

USA
Posts: 1495
#19 | Posted: 4 Feb 2011 13:25
Artofzee:
Get the story written while you have the urge. Set it aside for a while, maybe a day or two. Then look at it with fresh eyes and see if it strikes you as being as good as when you wrote it.

Exactly what I have always done. That trick worked like magic for my academic writing, and it still works great for fiction.

I have always said: "My writing is like fish: If you leave it alone for two days, it starts to smell."

Guy

blimp
Male Author

England
Posts: 1366
#20 | Posted: 4 Feb 2011 15:38
Artofzee:
Darcy plopped her books

And avoid words like plopped unless dealing with water! Sorry, I had to say it! Plopped is just not for me. Admittedly there is a lot to be said for avoiding all advice, including mine, and doing it your own way. I believe if you feel like describing what a character looks like, you should go right ahead and give the reader a description. In a story, I like to know what the characters look like. Use similies, metaphors etc as you see fit, of course beware of too many. Where I would agree is with checking and rechecking, getting rid of ballast and keeping only what is worth keeping. I thought the analogy of the fish was perfect. If you want a fabulous read you might try Frank O' Connor's book, The Lonely Voice: A Study of the Short Story. Although he discusses the greats, James Joyce, Chekhov, Kipling etc, I found it very helpful. Mind you, I can't quite forgive him for what he said about Katherine Mansfield. Still, it's a great book if you can find it.

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