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Gender of spanking story characters, how important?

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Often123
Male Member

USA
Posts: 791
#51 | Posted: 28 Jun 2022 19:25
I'm not going to attempt to tell writers how to write their stories, but as with many, my preferences are F/m & F/f with the appropriate gender descriptions. That seems to be the most sensible.

Meitneria
Female Member

USA
Posts: 4
#52 | Posted: 1 Jul 2022 12:58
@kdpierre - Singular they has been in use in English since the 1300s, was used by such writers as Geoffrey Chaucer, Shakespeare, Jane Austen, and by now its use for both non-binary folks and as a generic third-person singular has become widely accepted by basically all major English linguistic or journalistic organizations, including the American Dialect Society, Merriam-Webster, the Oxford English Dictionary, the Chicago Manual of Style, the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association (aka the APA style guide), the Modern Language Association, the Associated Press, the Washington Post, the New York Times...

I should add that the biggest opponents for "they" that I've encountered are old people who are either trying to hide their intolerant politics behind glib quips about love and appreciation for language as a thing of beauty, or the type of holier-than-thou linguistic prescriptivists who, like grade school grammar teachers, are too busy making up nonsense rules about less vs. fewer to notice that language usage evolves over time and, on this particular point, pretty much the entire English-speaking world has passed them by.

TL;DR - You are the old man shaking your cane and yelling at kids to stay off your lawn.

njrick
Male Author

USA
SUBSCRIBER

Posts: 2975
#53 | Posted: 1 Jul 2022 13:50
@Meitneria
If only Chaucer, Shakespeare and Jane Austen had had some holier-than-thou linguistic prescriptivist grade school grammar teachers, they could have learned to use the English language correctly.

(Wasn't that your point?)

kdpierre
Male Author

USA
Posts: 692
#54 | Posted: 1 Jul 2022 13:56
Meitneria
And you seem to be a very angry "I want it my way because I'm so special" young person. (As long as just throwing around disparaging accusations seems to serve as debate, I figured I'd get my shot in early.)

However, let's now go back to facts. You must remember those, prior to 2016 they actually meant something important in a discussion. Your reply ignores a key aspect of what I wrote several times: because this is a new category, I prefer new words (like the x, y, z, ones) for clarity, and yes, linguistic beauty. Did you read my point about "they"? If used interchangeably, when would a listener or reader know whether the subject was singular, plural, binary, or non-binary? (When we say "he" we know, and if we said "xe" we would know.) To say that I must be the person described here: "I should add that the biggest opponents for "they" that I've encountered are old people who are either trying to hide their intolerant politics behind glib quips about love and appreciation for language as a thing of beauty, or the type of holier-than-thou linguistic prescriptivists who, like grade school grammar teachers, are too busy making up nonsense rules about less vs. fewer to notice that language usage evolves over time and, on this particular point, pretty much the entire English-speaking world has passed them by." ignores that I am openly endorsing non-binary pronouns over the protest of those who would rather just pretend non-binary people don't even exist, AND ignores in your second point, that language does in fact have rules in order for communication to be clear. Yes, it changes, and rules are even fun to break when writing, but there are still rules. The only accurate part of your speculation is that I am old. If one is truly "as old as they feel", I am 962.

By the way, besides arguing (inaccurately no less) pronouns, what have you actually done to support non-binary people in your life? Would you care to weigh your track record against mine?

TheEnglishMaster
Male Author

England
SUBSCRIBER

Posts: 836
#55 | Posted: 1 Jul 2022 14:16
Meitneria:
making up nonsense rules about less vs. fewer to notice that language usage evolves over time

Another old man shaking my cane here... but 'less' and 'fewer' aren't the same - they refer to uncountable (less pain) and countable (fewer whacks) quantities respectively. That's not a "nonsense rule", it's simply what they mean.

I totally agree, however, that language is living and slippery and its usage is ever-changing. Less/fewer is one of those subtler linguistic moments where people understandably opt for the shorter and easier "less" in all cases. I have no problem with that. But as an English teacher (senior high school level), I do have to warn my students that the person marking their public exam paper might be an old man waving a cane on his lawn who'll deduct a mark if they use 'less' for a countable quantity.

Meanwhile, you're welcome on my lawn any time.

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