How do you see it?

There's an older gentleman I know who own's a bar I frequent. I like him. He has a non-pushy attitude I respect and look for in others. That said, he expressed an opinion on a matter I disagreed with. Hardly surprising and not enough for me to change my opinion of him, but unsettling just the same. To explain one aspect further about him to give a deeper understand about him before I mention the conundrum, his origin is from the southeast of America. So his personality is of a southern gent with traditional ways of viewing things. Contrastingly, bear in mind he runs a bar which has a clothing optional rule, and people of all walks are entitled to do as they like, legalities permitting (drugs, age, etc).

The point is he believes guys are more often the uglier, seedier side of life that instigates the vulgarities of sexuality, suggestive that women are purer and don't have any darker desires themselves.

That said, his lady likes to top at play parties in the bar (spankings primarily as one aspect). They favor lesbian and fem dom goings on, but, again, non-pushy (nobody is forced into anything they don't want to and guys are allowed to watch but seem not allowed to instigate domination). That said, people HAVE engaged in sex there. The only requirement is that they have to have a towel under them for health reasons and smell/cleanliness.

So, do you think he is just a product of his generation and upbringing, or just that he has beer-goggles, or just that he allows enough that doesn't become a brothel of mad sexual pursuits?

Honestly I don't quite understand what the opinion in question even is here. From the fact that this thread has 48 views but a stark zero replies, I'm guessing other people are similarly confused.

You mentioned that you know someone who runs a kink-friendly / sex-positive bar. You went on to elaborate that at this bar they tend to favor specifically femdom focused parties / events, though I'm not really sure what that has to do with the rest of the question.

In any case, this person apparently expressed something which you've paraphrased as: "He believes guys are more often the uglier, seedier side of life that instigates the vulgarities of sexuality, suggestive that women are purer and don't have any darker desires themselves."

There's a couple problems with this. For one, if he runs a sex-positive bar, I'd assume he doesn't actually view sexuality as inherently vulgar, seedy, and dark. For another, if "his lady" enjoys playing as a top / domme at the bar, then it seems pretty odd to suggest that he'd believe that women don't have sexual desires. Obviously, women do in fact have sexual desires.

If we look at just the first part of this statement -- "He believes guys are more often the uglier, seedier side of life..." -- this sounds to me like it could refer not to the contents of one's desires but to the tendency to act on those desires in improper, problematic or harmful ways. In that case, the implication isn't that women are "purer" than men or don't have "dark desires"; it's that, on average, they tend to engage in negative behaviors such as sexual harassment / assault / abuse, nonconsensual touching, etc. less often than men. But that's not really an opinion; it's just a (I would assume fairly uncontroversial) fact.

Finally, you ask "So, do you think he is just a product of his generation and upbringing, or just that he has beer-goggles, or just that he allows enough that doesn't become a brothel of mad sexual pursuits?" Again, I don't quite understand this question (especially what "beer-goggles" have to do with anything) but I certainly can't speculate on why this person holds the opinion in question when I don't even understand what the opinion in question is.

Pretty much everyone is a product of their generation and upbringing to some extent, though, so that's probably a good bet.

Sounds like this guy has a very severe case of being old.

I'm afraid I also don't see what the problem or the question is. It's his bar, he runs it legally, so what goes on there is up to him and his lady. If people like it, they'll keep drinking there. If they don't, they'll just find another bar. Have I missed something?

If you can only be friends with someone that agrees with you 100% of the time, then you won't have many friends. I don't know even any couples that agree on everything, why would you expect that with an acquaintance?

Meitneria

I thought I was plain about that but my thoughts don't exactly spell out as plainly as I think sometimes. It was the contrary perspective that he runs a rather open minded concept bar, yet has very traditional concepts that men are the aggressive, sexual predators, yet the women in the bar are so to speak the sexually aggressives. Understand, the bar isn't mandatory fem dom, it "simply" promotes fem dom.


Exactly!

Exactly again!

Obviously, exactly again!
To explain, "his lady" is not his wife, they have an open relationship sort of thing they don't explain or go into, so I can't explain more than he ha
s exclusive to her, but she seems to be able to do as she likes with men or women, but prefers women more. They seem to be a "free love" 60's vibe sort of relationship, but it seems she is more free than him.

Umm... yes and no. His basis seems to be that men are the ones to engage in pedopilia, men are the ones to want to initiate anal sex, men are the ones to desire women to be dressed scantilly, blah, blah, blah.
One thing he said additionally was to, as a joke, say he was going to mandate the female bartenders (the majority of the bartenders) to dress in a scanty uniform, to his bartenders and how shocked he was that the joke backfired when the women opened up the catalog and started saying which outfits were "better."
Do you NOW see what I'm saying?
But yes, he also thinks men are more abusive, harrassing and predatory. I don't really want to go down that road of thought. It's arguable, and contentious and isn't the focus of the topic. I know how he feels about that, and have talked about our points of view, which ate differemt, but not by much.

I'm not looking to leave the bar. As I said, I like the guy. I'm just surprised someone so progressive, could do a 180 and be so backward.

First of all, this is some amazing bar you patronize, Lonewulf !

On the topic of men's and women's sexuality, I think a lot of "progressive" men still hold the view (I know I'm liable to that) that women's sexuality is more attuned/directed at the emotional side of things while men's sexuality is more physical-based.

Maybe the best example of this is the stereotypically-shown reaction of, say, a woman sent a nude photograph of a man versus the other way around; or the comically-shown contrast between finding out that your opposite sex roommate is nudist who asks you if it's okay for them to do/be so while you're around, as a man and as a woman; etc.

You will find many more "evidence" that "validates" this kind of thinking. Sexually stimulating material directed at women are often satirized for being more "cerebral" and story-based, the images and videos shown to appeal to women viewership tend to be tackily more sensual and showing an exagerated "connection" between the parties involved in the "love making" session .
A cropped image, for example, of a good-looking pair of breasts is expected to appeal to almost all heterosexual men, a cropped image of an equally good-looking penis will be mostly appreciated by... homosexual men! (Now, is this stereotypical, and therefore inherently erroneous? Sure, but it's where a lot of this kind of thinking comes from, I think.)

And to add even more to this line of thinking, there was an interview with a porn star that I saw, and she was mentioning her work ethics and collaterally badmouthing other models who can be seen to clearly "fake it" and have no problem with that... she went on to talk about a scene she did with an 18 year old fellow model... her work ethics forced her to "try" to be sexually attracted to this gorgeous teenager, and the only mentality she could get into to be able to do so, was to be aggressively dominant... or in her words:

Meanwhile I was thinking (taking the stereotypical man defensive tone): Isn't a gorgeous body at its prime (legal though) enough? Who cares what experience or lack thereof "that body" had - If a good friend of mine went to sleep a "hideous-looking" fellow and woke up with an outstanding woman's body (like I'm sure a thousand porn stories/drawings had depicted before), it wouldn't change anything about how attractive that body is for me - Hell, it won't change anything about how attractive that body is for him himself!

You can almost say, following that mentality -- and along the lines of "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus.." -- that the engineer in a man will always appreciate the geometrical beauty of things, and the novelist in a woman will always need a description AND a dialogue... or something.


Also, don't forget the impact rejection have on us men too!
If he -- in his teens, probably -- was "down" to have sex with almost all girls/women he'd encounter, and a tiny fraction, if at all, of those will even consider it, he might have internalized that as: "women are inherently asexual creatures, going through the motion of it just for money/peer pressure/curiosity/validation...etc."
That coping mechanism is more wide-spread than most men would like to admit!

People believe all kinds of stuff and none of it needs to make sense. People are quite adept at rationalizing ANYTHING. All this guy would need is some 'better-than-men' personal belief about women, which if he is a Femdom guy is quite consistent, and then have that belief reinforced by whatever he might have seen unfold in his bar, or life or whatever. Boom...done.....you have a solid belief with ample personal experience to lock it in place. (Perhaps if he leaned M/f and worked in a women's STD clinic, he'd hold the opposite view? LOL)

Recently a friend of ours told us that space aliens built the pyramids, and you HAD to hear the reasoning behind that! I told my son the story and he had me listen to a modern parody/rap song where a guy wakes up to the new girl he just had sex with only to have the conversation degenerate into an argument about religion and dinosaurs. Hysterical......but relatable.

Where is the bar?

kdpierre
THAT is probably the best explanation. Completely foreign a mindset to me which is why I was asking.

Shadowspnk
uh... somewhere over the rainbow?
Dude... I don't want my online life to arbitrarily meet my real life. Onea you might meet me and think I'm not half the curmudgeon that I pretend to be online!!! pfft! Then what? All that time and effort building a reputation only to have you say "OMG, He's really such a sweet loveable teddybear!" I would be shamed for life. I'd never be able to sign in again...
Meanwhile, everyone at the bar knows how much of an asshole I am. They'd never be surprised learning about my online antics...

I don't consider this topic ended. I'm interested if others agree, disagree, or have alternative ideas on the matter.