Fairness, Severity and Morality

I have noted over my time with the library how many people are concerned with fairness and severity in stories. I have been in trouble for both issues in various stories.
Many readers are happy to accept punishment as long as it is earned, and not too severe for the offence. It is heartening that so much basic decency is the default attitude in the community, and it is what makes real life possible.
However, these stories are not real life, but fetishistic fantasy. In real life any of these spankings would be unfair: all those caned school girls, spanked children and wives would be widely condemned (I make no judgement of spanking discipline by parents in true life, as that's too big a topic here).
As for severity - I like it. It is fantasy, and I can't see much interest in smack-and-giggle punishments, unless there is complex psychology and personality development involved.
There is severity and severity, though. I recently found tumblr sites of archives of punished bottoms. Some of the photos were so severe they were sickening; and they were not fantasy but real. The question arises of the morality of caning (usually) somebody that hard, even when it is voluntary and perhaps desired. Is there a point at which damaging another cannot be justified and always is wrong, or can it be said that consenting adults can do and suffer what they like? I have a view, but it may not be everybody's.
What do people think about all this?

Although there are very real situations (not just in the spanking universe) where one person is maltreated by another, nominally on a "voluntary" basis, but in reality because he or she doesn't have the wherewithal to say know, I'd be cautious in saying this is true just because a spanking is especially severe. People really do have different levels of tolerance, and sometimes the desire to be taken "over the edge." There's nothing immoral about this. It should be approached, however with a great deal of caution.

Consent is the chief consideration, but I'm not sure it's the only one. Moderate spanking is as safe as houses but there is clearly a point of excess where it could become dangerous, either physically or psychologically. The fact that someone had consented to it or desired it would not make it ok, in my opinion, any more than it would be ok to help someone drink to excess or harm themselves in any other way. Of course, where you draw the line is a matter of personal opinion. For myself. the appeal of spanking has at least as much to do with ritual humiliation as with pain. A bit of mild bruising is quite acceptable, but if a punishment draws blood, for example, I have no wish to see it or even read about it.

My sentiments exactly. It is the rituals of spanking and caning that I find so interesting. It should be painful but not brutal. Some of the videos produced (Lupus, Mood etc) are disturbing because they take things miles too far. All that blood and gore are as far removed from smacked bottoms and cheeky fun as its possible to be. I feel I have nothing in common with people that like that sort of thing. What is erotic about a backside that looks like a side of beef? Still I suppose one must say each to their own. Certainly wouldn't want to see that sort of material banned unless of course it causes serious harm.

One does have to distinguish between real life and fantasy. One may not approve of children being spanked in real life,or wives being spanked by husbands,and yet enjoy reading and writing a school paddling or domestic discipline story. To take a personal example, I enjoy stories where a woman or girl gets spanked for the way she is dressed. But in r/l I think that should not happen, women should be able to dress as they choose. I attribute this fantasy to growing up in a family and community where anything but conservative female dress was very frowned upon.
I agree about excessive severity. Some of the picture of bottoms posted from one of these sites mentioned are horrifying and repulsive. But then again some people don't approve of stories where anything other than the hand is used for spanking. Some of my stories involve hard paddlings that leave bottoms very sore, the premise being severe punishment was earned.And yes,severity should be commensurate to the offense. For example,a mother paddling her college age daughter who not only drank underage with a fake identification and drove afterwards should be a lot harsher than if she was a younger teen who merely missed curfew or skipped school.

As a person who has engaged in spanking most of my life in one way or another, my view is a bit reversed. I don't like reading a story with a mild spanking. I especially find it almost laughable if a serious punishment is discussed and the punishment that follows is anything but. (the 50 Shades '6 hit bad as it can be' punishment anyone? I almost died laughing when I saw that!) Butts are quite resilient. I know mine is. Between consenting adults, anything goes. That's why we're adults. That's why there's consent.

As for 'this is fantasy' so it can be more severe..........well, perhaps. But stories that reek of fantasy turn me off so quickly I rarely finish them. Now, in this case when I use the word 'fantasy' I mean sexual fantasy related to the punishment. I can definitely enjoy a realistic story within a fantasy (sci-fi/supernatural/fairy-tale) setting. Ultimately, regardless of the setting and plot, I want a story that seems real, from the premise....to the dialog......to the punishment.

The one place I agree with most of you, is with domestic punishments between a parent and offspring. Even a "harsh" punishment in that situation is not going to be evocative of a Lupus caning, and shouldn't be. It should feel like a loving correction, especially since in these cases they are being done without consent.

As for blood as the 'turn-off line'? Not for me. I don't seek blood per se......but as someone who has bled to a degree due to a punishment now and then, I can attest that bleeding is merely the result of broken skin. It doesn't mean your Top is a sadistic freak (though hopefully, if you're lucky, they are.....just kidding), it just means 'something happened'. Skin will break when hit, especially if......you're using natural switches with rough buds......or you have thin skin and are on blood thinner......or you overlap a welt too many times..........or, as sometimes happens......you have a pimple on your butt. Often, like a paper cut, you won't even know you're bleeding until told.

True bleeding from say a judicial caning in Singapore is quite a different animal. It is similar to a whipping with a latigo whip which will leave scars....as experienced by slaves.....or the flogging of crewmen with a cat This is deep cutting and real tissue damage being inflicted. Neither actual slavery nor judicial caning seem to be a sexual thing for most kinky folks though. All that said.....the Lupus pictures work for me. But it's only because I'm assuming consent. If I were to find out these places were coercing women to do this, it would bother me. (Some Japanese stuff has this 'real-world, abducted sex-slave' feel to it.....and I just want to call Interpol.)

Finally.......'fairness'. In real life we want things to be fair. But in reality they are not. And for me, there is a definite inverse ratio of fairness to consent. If the spanking is between consenting people......the more unfair the better. (The premise of one person spanking another, especially if of a similar age or rank, is inherently unfair. That's the whole point.) I even like unfairness if the situation is not entirely consensual.....but I admittedly like these stories to be a bit humorous and not as realistic. (CK's "Matched Pair" or Juanone's "The Wager")

And I can enjoy a parent 'fairly' spanking a young, or even adult offspring, provided there is some element of the guilty party agreeing to....or especially WANTING the punishment. (ChardT's infamous "The Talk"). A basic deserved punishment from an adult to a misbehaving, non-consenting minor who got caught misbehaving, delivered in moderation, and with clear concern ...........is one of the most boring spanking premises I encounter..........putting me (yet again) in the clear minority here.

In reality I'd say the most important thing is to have clear rules made between the consenting partners. It should be agreed upon how harsh is okay for them or if they are trying to find their limit a form of safe-word or something similar should be in place. Even then people probably shouldn't go overboard. If you are starting to worry about the health of your partner you probably should stop even if they seem fine with continuing.

In fiction though? I'd say anything goes, even unfair or non-consensual scenarios. They are fantasies that can be explored in a safe place or avoided. Being darker than what would be okay in reality is one of the points that can make them interesting and fascinating after all.

There is some very interesting discussion here, as expected. Various views, too.
Regarding real life, as seen in films anyway, I like a bit of severity in certain contexts. I like a lot of the Lupus films, except when the girls are screaming and obviously distressed - if that makes any sense. I can forgive a lot if the top is female, but I don't like any hint of men bullying women. There is one sadistic, nasty fellow I'd like to see in reverse roles. I do have a soft spot for the Lupus headmaster, though. He is so completely controlled and dispassionate that there is no sense of sadism or bullying.
I don't think about pain, though that is a big element in the enjoyment for many people. For me it is a visual and ideas thing, and I wouldn't care if anaesthetic was used before filming. Is it, I wonder? Sure looks that way I some Cruel Amazons films where a man is caned raw with no response from him. He might as well be a bag of wheat - and some of the girl tops look as engaged and passionate as if they were beating such a bag.
I like f/m, somewhat to my surprise, if the woman has that ruthless, cruel personality - it is all about the woman for me.
I have reservations about girls being severely beaten when they accept it only for money. That does not seem justified to me, to see scared and suffering girls who are not into it at all, but for needed/wanted cash.
As to fairness in stories, it is possible, but limiting. I do like a bit of comeuppance for the baddies, which restores the moral balance. It seldom happens in real life, but we are masters of all when creating stories.
I think permanent damage is wrong, regardless of acceptance at the time. Yes, bottoms can take a lot (I suppose), but some of the pictures mentioned show dreadfully afflicted breasts, which apart from everything else, is a real health problem. I hate that. Clearly, there is a market for it, and a taste, but it is not mine.
I suspect there is a very wide spectrum of tastes in the cp world. What else is new?
Thanks to all who replied.

There's a reason its Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Consent is only one third of the issue.

That's in real life, of course. In fantasy scenarios, none of those rules need apply, just so long as its clear that its fantasy.

I have found the caning of naughty women on their knickers down bare bottoms made by Lupus to be most realistic. That is what makes them sexually and erotically excellent for my taste, And their acting both from the male and female sides most authentic. I only wish other film video studios would do the same.