Just a dream some of us had?

OMG hugs hugs hugs

I keep on thinking why I hate my father so much as a result of the spanking (actually the single tap which I could hardly feel) I described earlier--on the first page of this thread. As I indicated, he said he was going to leave us unless I submitted to a spanking. I believe this was not an idle threat. Thinking back, he would have lost all credibility had I refused and had he stayed. Why did I and why do I still harbor so much resentment? I'm not sure I can articulate the reasons properly; I'm not sure I understand the reasons myself--but I'm going to make an attempt. I clearly was strong willed and didn't want to submit. But it's far more than that. Looking back, the idea of letting a child decide--based on a willingness to submit to a bare-bottomed spanking--whether the family would be fractured or would remain intact seems insane. Maybe when I was young I recognized in a less mature way the absurdity of the position in which I was placed. I had to bare myself and accept a punishment--the severity of which I couldn't determine ahead of time--in order to keep the family together. Why did I agree to do it? For my mother mainly but for myself as well. Yet this isn't a position a child should be placed in. There was the humiliation factor obviously in what I had to do. I was post-pubescent. And then there was the single tap that was so light that I could barely feel it. I ask myself about that. Would I have preferred that he beat the living daylights out of me? He wasn't a people person but he wasn't cruel either. Yet in a strange sense by not beating me he was cruel. He humiliated me. He did what he did to try to reestablish some sense of control I realize. But I felt terrible, just terrible. But I say to myself I should not judge him so harshly. He wasn't a sadist. He had his faults just like everyone else and he had a limited skill set to handle everyday problems. And that's what led to the "showdown" on the bed.

This is a very difficult question, but I think your analysis is correct - he put a burden on your shoulders that it obviously was his duty to carry. No child should be forced to carry the responsibility for the adults of the family.

As for the punishment itself, my intuitive reaction is that it might have been better if he had given you a real spanking. That would have given you something else to focus your anger on - as it was, you were forced to concentrate on your humiliation and his betrayal. The single tap changed what might have been regarded a simple, but misguided act of punishment into something that can only be interpreted as a brutal act of enforcing his will - and breaking yours.

But there is no way to be certain about this things. Perhaps a real spanking had only made things worse. It depends on the situation and how you would later come to see it.

Well, I tend to agree with this.

By administering only a single, light 'symbolic' swat, her father seemingly made the exposing of her derriere much more humbling--if he'd administered a sound spanking, then her teenage bottom being bared could perhaps be accepted as a pragmatic matter of making the punishment more effective, but this way it strikes me as having been an attempt to humiliate the victim rather than one to truly discipline her.

It was certainly a strange (and risky) ultimatum to deliver to, and enforce upon, his underage daughter, I'm figuring... --C.K.

I'm very sure, that it doesn't work in any way. My own memories of beatings in the family are very bad and left lifelong feelings of hate towards my mother. Even if she thinks, she reacted fair, that was never my impression. I also experienced punishments at school. They followed certain rules like you demanded. But they never had your suggested effects. Mostly the punishments led to days or weeks of bullying from other kids and a lost of self-confidence of the miscreants. A punishment always worsened their situation and subsequently their behavior.

And a view back into old novels shows too that punishments were never described as a sign of love, cathartic etc., but very often as breaking of souls. So I really think in regard to children it doesn't work and people who still believe in corporal punishments are just seeking an odd excuse for their own weird wishes.

The feedback I've received from Alef, CrimsonKid, and Mati have helped me to sort out some of my feelings--maybe not resolve the feelings which would be impossible, but given me a new way of thinking about them. I never really intellectualized the idea that my father's failure to carry through with a real spanking in the event I described was a betrayal as Alef indicated, but in fact it was a betrayal, and intuitively I probably knew it but couldn't articulate it. I just knew something was amiss. I'm sure HE never thought of it as a betrayal. He was simply trying to reassert some control. As CrimsonKid pointed out, my father's failure to follow through made it appear to me that he was simply trying to humiliate me. But not without a cost. The rift in our relationship was greater following this incident than it was before. Of course this was a cost for me as well as for him. I don't want to give the impression that he was an ogre because he was not. He helped me on more than one occasion. What he lacked was people skills in so many areas of his life. And he certainly didn't know how to deal with kids.

And I agree, CrimsonKid, that this was a strange ultimatum to impose on a teenager. My mother did not back me up. She was present when this occurred. I felt I had no choice. I am a much stronger person today and if the same thing occurred I would have refused.

And Mati, I think what you said points out the difference between what is real and what is fantasy. What real child or teen ever views physical (or any other kind of punishment) as an indication of love? Punishments of kids eat away at their already thin veneer of self confidence assuming they have any to start with. And you said that punishments you received at school in real life were followed by bullying from other kids. Contrast this with scenarios in spanking stories in which kids who are caned at school find that their stock goes up among their peers when they display their new stripes to their friends.

Spanking is fun and arousing when the person being punished has control over the punishment. A kid has no control.

I am sure he never did. My guess is that he thought he was doing you a favor when he settled for a symbolic tap. He probably felt he had regained a certain amount of control, and that he didn't have to enforce the punishment. He may have been right - it is impossible to know what your feelings would have been if he had given you a real spanking. His betrayal was to force you into the situation at all - it was absurd to put the responsibility for a family's future on the shoulders of a fourteen year old.

cindy2
I have followed the responses to this with interest and have a slightly different take on this.....more in line with what you actually admit: he was desperate to re-establish control in a situation that you yourself admit was caused by your own behavior. I believe all he was doing was exactly what you say: proving a point. The reason he didn't beat you was that it wasn't his intention to punish you but to have you realize your behavior was jeopardizing the family and you needed to take ownership of it by submitting to parental authority.

I raised one set of kids and am helping raise another. The patterns are the same. At the time of a confrontation over misbehavior NO kid ever wants to admit they are wrong. That is why the "dream spanking" rarely if ever occurs. The major criteria are never met. The parent is still angry and frustrated and desperate and the kid is defiant and in denial of wrongdoing. That violates the main things needed for a cathartic punishment. Now that we take away Iphones instead of spank...the reactions are the same. "This is soooo unfair!"

In your case I find a paradox in that in your own words you admit your behavior was bad yet you still resent your mother's punishments and even your father's "non-punishment". Have you considered that maybe the man was so frustrated that if control wasn't restored he would have left? That it wasn't an idle threat but a last act of desperation to fix things? Had he not tried to gain control would things have been better? Would your behavior improved? It seems to me the poor guy was in a no win situation....either let things go on and ruin the family or make a stand and earn your resentment.

I do have a question for you though. You say what triggered lifelong resentment, but you don't say what you think should have happened instead. If the day was able to be lived over.....what should have happened instead?

The trouble is with families they are little hot houses of emotions. Every little thing gets blown out of proportion. Love can all too easily turn to hatred. In the past I don't thing anyone bothered much with emotional analysis you just did what you were told and that was it. I never punished my children in any way because the world is a hard enough place without me adding to it. That was my or should I say our thoughts at the time. Not sure if it works yet, for all I know they may be planning to put me in an old folks home at this very moment!

I was always terrified before, during and after a spanking, I was probably only spanked hard on a handful of occasions and I definitely deserved it every time. I never felt humiliated, only frightened and afterwards embarrassed that I had my pants pulled down. I don't remember ever feeling angry afterwards, I just felt fearful of it happening again and I do think I felt remorseful about whatever it was I had done wrong. A spanking was followed by being immediately sent to bed which gave you ample time to think about the consequences of what you had done wrong.

It did not make me feel closer to my foster mother because I knew I was very much loved anyway, it just made me much more respectful and better behaved and keen not to ever get another one. I always remember being the model of good behaviour, polite and respectful for weeks after going over her knee. So I guess in my case spanking worked, it was a massive deterrent for bad behaviour and just the threat of having my pants pulled down would have me blushing and make me change my behaviour in an instant.

I wonder if you feel different getting a spanking from someone who is not your actual parent and that is why I did not feel angry, resentful etc? Never having received a spanking from a parent I only have this experience to go on. Has anyone else been spanked by parents and another authority figure? Did they have different emotions/reactions/feelings to the different people?