Medieval Underpants

Continuing our ladies' undies theme, Medieval Underpants is actually (part of) the catchy title of American Susanne Alleyn's book of advice for us historical fiction writers. Namely, how to avoid anachronisms, errors, & myths when writing a story set in the distant past. It deals not only with clothing, but also geography, word usage, cuisine, etc. For example, don't have Thomas Jefferson walking down the rue de Rivoli in Paris in 1787, on his way to spank Marie Antoinette. The street did not bear that name until 1806, when it was named to honor one of Napoleon's victories. Believe it or not, some reader will know that.

FWIW, one of my biggest goofs was to have a modern Englishman exclaim "Odds bodkins!" in Two Spankings for Lady Southcott. I was quickly informed that it was an oath of sorts not heard since Tudor days..

What is the title? This sounds like a must have.

Never mind. Found it and it turns out I had read her novel about the French Executioner. Fascinating but grim.
The book looks very useful. When writing in other time periods it is very difficult to keep modern day idiomatic speech from creeping in, not to mention outright mistakes in clothing, food, historical events and customs.

Rollin - The book looks very useful. When writing in other time periods it is very difficult to keep modern day idiomatic speech from creeping in, not to mention outright mistakes in clothing, food, historical events and customs.

Yeah but if the spanking is hot, who cares??

Well, minidancer, I do. A medieval knight does not say, "the bottom line is, we have to win this battle." The bratty princess does not pout and say "whatever." (Unless it's humor, like a fractured fairy tale). And there are much less obvious anachronisms. No one in medieval times says "ok" or "go for it" or "take him out". The dialog has to be very neutral. I'm less concerned really, about pottery and food and clothing. (But I am going to get that book if for nothing else than to solve the underwear conundrum.)

I'm not possitive, but I don't think underwear, meaning "panties", came into play until the late 1700's, thanks to the ladies in Paris. I am definitely going to look into this book for myself though, so thank you Cal, for this tid bit of information.

I sorta. knew that up until, say, the mid-1800s, fine ladies and peasant girls alike wore nothing much a`tall under their petticoats, but the book gives a very practical reason for it.

rollinWell, minidancer, I do. A medieval knight does not say, "the bottom line is, we have to win this battle." The bratty princess does not pout and say "whatever." (Unless it's humor, like a fractured fairy tale). And there are much less obvious anachronisms. No one in medieval times says "ok" or "go for it" or "take him out". The dialog has to be very neutral. I'm less concerned really, about pottery and food and clothing. (But I am going to get that book if for nothing else than to solve the underwear conundrum.)>>

If you take this to extremis then you must use middle English in your dialogue, and many of today's words and spellings will be different.
Even in the 19th C f and s were printed almost the same and reading them is difficult.
So to be completely true to form if writing in Chaucer's time you must use his English usage, and if in Shakespeare's time his original English usage-not the current "translation."

Even pre 1960 English usage in England was very different and if you listen to BBC announcers and presenters they sound as if their gobs were stuffed with plums (to use slang of the time).
I completely agree that some modern usage has to be avoided eg your examples but there must be some practicality.
I wouldn't even dare to write in the vernacular of my schooldays as I would almost certainly be guilty of both sexism and racism.

In conclusion we must remember that our writings are fantasies, and we have to conform with the requirements of today.

Besides which I doubt if many under fifties would believe just how common "a smack around the head" was in my school days. This was considered the norm-not CP in the fifties and early sixties.

Jimisim--If you read some of the historical writers like Bernard Cornwell, they do a very good job with narrative and dialog without resorting to actual middle English or anything like it. I have read authors who attempt dialect and to me it becomes irritating after a while. A little is ok, like, "aye, m'lord", but beyond that I prefer neutral English. As I said above the challenge is preventing modern idioms from creeping in.

Modern dialect and slang are actually something I've mused over a lot in regards to historical fiction. I mean, I'm already translating the language itself into modern English. Why not go further and have them use equivalent modern slang terms and expressions? Not ones that are based on modern technology of course (a medieval character saying "brb" is right out), but I'm kind of amused by the notion of medieval aristocratic youth talking like modern frat boys with "dude" and "sweet" and "right on."