England

I don't know that this is "small talk" but here goes: It seems that yet another attack by third-world barbarians has occurred in London. By my math, this makes three in Britain in two months (including the atrocity in Manchester). I hope I can speak for all of us Yanks in extending my sympathy to our British cousins. I would also ask, "Is anyone getting tired of this?" Again, and again, and again; innocents slaughtered in various grotesque ways by what can only be called religious fanatics who still seem to be stuck in the 7th Century, philosophically speaking. It would also seem that they are immune to negotiation, persuasion or even force, unless civilized people submit unconditionally to their unconscionable demands. At some point, this would seem to lend itself to a sort of a "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" kind of solution if enough people, especially in the West become disillusioned with their respective governments' inaction or inability to deal with this completely unacceptable situation. When will this end? And, more importantly, how?

I think it's fair to say that personally I am sick to death of it, and living no more than a few miles from the recent Manchester atrocity I've seen the effects close up so to speak. I'm sure many aren't going to like what I have to say about it but to be honest I'm past caring. As far as England goes we have two problems: one is Islam, which I personally regard as a primitive, totalitarian theocracy which has one overarching aim and that's subjugation of all. History shows us this all too clearly, and whilst other religions may have had a bloody past they have, to the best of my knowledge, moved into the 21st century now; the other is the liberal ideology and political correctness that prevents us from actually addressing the issue. Anyone who dares to suggest that Islam just might be the cause of all these atrocities is shot down in flames with misguided accusations of racism, bigotry, intolerance and so on.

The biased mainstream media (and in particular the BBC) also contribute to this particular problem with their constant "nothing to do with Islam" approach. That the Quran has over 100 verses which call for the death or harming of non-Muslims is simply glossed over and phrases such as "kill the unbelievers wherever you may find them" excused as being taken out of context. Of course, the majority of Muslims aren't going around killing people but literally hundreds of thousands are, and in my opinion will continue to do so indefinitely. Meanwhile, those of us who have the courage to point out where the problem lies will continue to be branded as 'Islamophobic'. I suspect this is how it's going to be now indefinitely and if my family circumstances were different I would be looking to emigrate with immediate effect.

Well said! The BBC and Channel 4 have a lot to answer for. Lots of good Muslim people around but the zealots seem to get a lot of air time lately. Their message that it is all the UK's fault for not dealing with young radical Muslims is guaranteed to make my blood pressure rise to alarming levels. Anyone that doesn't like Western values should really find somewhere else to live.

Well, there is a difference between "Islam" in general and "radical Islam," isn't there?

Looking the Bible's Old Testament, there are certainly parts of it that, if taken literally, would require Jews and Christians to behave in a rather bloodthirsty manner.

Here in the U.S.A., fundamentalist Christians justify their hated, bigotry and discrimination (these days notably 'gay-bashing') as being "biblical" in nature.

However, I do agree that the media needs to concede that there are violent people who have no rational agenda to be engaged with, put simply death and destruction are their objectives.

Again in the U.S.A., radicalized Muslims aren't the only group with such attitudes, but they are a major one. The problem here is worsened because general anti-Islamic prejudice is intensified and exploited for political advantage by extremist politicians--thus the line between opposing the violence of radical Islam and being religiously bigoted against nonviolent Muslims is intentionally blurred.

Countries which actively support the violent aims of radical Islam need to be isolated and treated as pariahs by the rest of the world, I'm figuring.

--C.K.

I thought we weren't supposed to talk politics here? I think CK is right on in calling out the difference between radical Islam and Islam in general.

The politics which we don't want on the forum is partisan politics because the conversation invariably becomes heated and rapidly devolves into all-out warfare. Should this thread go that way then we will lock it.


I'm not sure the families of those who lost loved ones recently will take too much comfort in contemplating the difference between Islam and so-called 'radical' Islam.

Not long ago a man in New York drove into a crowd in Times Square because he heard God talking in his head, telling him to do it. As he was not labelled a Muslim he is presumably a Christian, yet people aren't talking about it being a Christian terrorist attack - just the actions of a sick mind. I can't help but wonder how many "lone wolves" were in the same in the same boat. Certainly the closeted person who attacked Pulse (a gay nightclub where he sometimes picked up guys) had major mental health issues.

I wasn't in London during the Troubles, so I'm not sure if people made the separation between regular Irish Catholics and the I.R.A. members planting bombs. Certainly some people went to jail for being Irish in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Shrug.

I'll express sympathy for anyone who get targeted by any terror group, but I don't see the point about discussion their acts here. Unless someone wants to write a story about someone getting a jolly good spanking for reading jyhand linked websites.... Actually, that would fit the current story contest...

I disagree. They are definitely "Islamic" terrorists! They have been brainwashed to such an extent that all they care about is their religion. They have no humanity, no empathy, no conscience, no love for anything but Allah. They have nothing in common with a man who hears voices. Worst of all, there seem to be lots of them. It is not just one lone nutter. It's a tsunami, a tidal wave of fanatics. All those poor innocents murdered in cold blood and we have still got all the right-on PC types making excuses for the terrorists, telling us its all our fault for having a crap foreign policy and not allowing Sharia law in Britain.

Well, I don't believe anyone in this Library is making that kind of a ridiculous argument.

However, there are people here in the U.S.A. who are promoting general anti-Muslim bigotry based on the actions of radical Islamic terrorists, and they're doing so for their narrow political advantage.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I'd hope that the rest of the world would unite to make miserable and unpopular any national government which clearly supports terrorist activity.

--C.K.

Some are terrorists, then you have mentally disturbed people who have had little if any contact with terrorists who do things and their actions are claimed by terrorists. If the guy in the Times Square attack had been Muslim and said he did it because God told him to then that would be counted as another Muslim assault.

Just because a group claims responsibility for something doesn't mean that they had a hand in doing it. ISIS recently claimed responsibility for an attack in the Philippines, only for the world to discover that it wasn't motivated by terror but by greed.