When Vanilla says...

Thanks to one and all. It is always interesting to get other peoples input on any activity and especially on TTWD. I taught classes for many years on a program I, and many others, put into practice throughout all branches of the military and some civilian jobs. In every class I learned something new. Thanks again. RK

Raisedkilt,

Good luck. I am probably a similar age to you and for many years only spanked my wife, and that occasionally. After the children grew up and moved out, I made a stand and dragged her to munches and parties. I'm sure that she'd much rather watch soaps on television, but either she came with me or I would go on my own and that she would not like.
I risked much by laying down the law, but we are better for it.
I sympathise with you, but help I cannot.
Your choice.
Either spanking is important enough to you that you will make a stand, or you will have to pretend you are vanilla and be passive aggressive by reading spanking stories that turn you on and then demand sex.
It is a sad fact that married couples don't discuss their needs and fantasies anything like often enough, which leads to infidelity, mistrust, dislike and eventually loathing.
Persist, don't let it gnaw away at you.
IMHO.
There will be gainsayers aplenty!

@raisedkilt -

Step 1 would be make your interest in TTWD clear to your significant other in an attempt to open a dialog about it. From your initial post, it sounds like you've already pretty much done that, with limited success.

If it's still a hard no on trying it from her, then you should respect her limits; however, you should also respect your own wants / needs enough to make clear to her that this isn't just a minor interest to you - it's something that you need to explore to feel fulfilled and happy (assuming, of course, that is the case). Tell her that you would absolutely prefer to explore that interest with her, but if she flat-out refuses to be involved in that part of your life, then you would like to explore it with others instead.

Make clear that you are not looking to have others provide things that you can get with her - sex, romantic love, etc. etc. You only wish to explore this one specific interest with others because she refuses to explore it with you herself. Also make clear that this goes both ways! - If she has wants or need that aren't being met, you wish she would share them with you so that you can better help her fulfill them, and if for some reason you can't (maybe she has her own deep, dark kink that you're just absolutely not into!) then you're open to her exploring them with others instead. Most of all, explain that this is about helping both you and her to better fulfill all of your wants and needs. This unfulfilled interest of yours is getting in the way of your enjoyment of the things that you two do do together, and that's not healthy for your relationship in either direction. And be proactive about showing her that you do still care about her, and you still want to enjoy the other things that she is willing to do together with her as well.

If she also refuses to have that conversation or to give you her blessing to pursue your interest, then... honestly you're basically stuck with the choice of either sacrificing pursuing it for her sake, or choosing to pursue it despite her wishes. I find it a truly bizarre feature of what we call monogamy that someone would not want to do thing XYZ with you, but also not want you to go do thing XYZ with someone else. (Imagine your spouse telling you that because they don't like baseball, you also are not allowed to go play baseball with your friends - complete nonsense. It's only because of our culture's hang-ups about sex that for some reason we think this makes more sense when it comes to kinks instead.)

Personally, I would never stay with someone who didn't want me to pursue the things that I want / need to make me happy. That's the antithesis of what a relationship is supposed to be about, which is wanting your significant other to be the most happy, fulfilled person that they can be, and helping them get there.

Good luck!
~ Mei

First, I was going to be the first to respond to the "what does TTWD mean?" but my internet decided to crash.

Second, I didn't know what TTWD meant, and had to look it up on UrbanDictionary where it said that TTWD is a term "commonly" and solely used by the BDSM society. I truly hate using TLA's and FLA's especially when most people who use them don't know the difference between an initialism and an acronym*.

Third, I'm not sure I agree completely with Meitneria, although she gives a thorough and egalitarian approach to handling the situation. Honestly, I think this is something you should have mentioned LONG before you said "I do." If it's something that came up as an interest AFTERWARDS, then this doesn't qualify as a "need" as much as a "penchant."

I have such a preference towards spanking that I qualify any girlfriends I go out with, as "this is something I like, now is that a problem and should we go our separate ways?"

The only difference to your approach opposed to what Mei said is I would ask, without playing games. I wouldn't give what Mei seemed to suggest as an ultimatum. It seems that you said you're both into your retirement years, and apparently you two never tried it out. Honestly, I don't know what you were thinking up to now, but it seems a little late to be making changes in "the schedule." It might be cold, but I'd say:
7: Suck it up, Buttercup.

"No pressure" is the way I would go. Have the heart to heart Mei describes, and DO ask if there are things she wants to try that you two haven't done. But if it comes down to "no" then the answer is no. Women as they get older have less interest in fulfilling sexual wants, mostly because men are lousy at making a woman equally happy during sex, in all the years prior. Frankly, I'd think if you were an ardent individual, who always gave as much as you took, then she would be more open, and willing to giving in to this one request. I admit, this is a jump in logic, and a woman can freely contradict me on how older women are, but that is how I feel.

Hidden agendas are the leading reason to failed relationships. Easiest way to handle them is not to have one.

*an Acronym is initials that make up a word; like NASA, or DOS.
an initialism (or alphabetism) is initials that are spelled out when spoken; like CPU, or HTML.

The OP has lots of advice, a broad range of opinion which goes to show how diverse we humans are.

Lockdown continues here so much of my new relationship has to happen online. I continue to explore at a leisurely pace whether our relationship will include spanking. This feels like a significant love so a lot is at stake. A major reason why I empathise with the OP as chucking the baby out with the bath water does not appeal.

So I wrote her a short spanking fantasy which she really liked. I deliberately included elements such as her dressing up and telling me off which I knew she would like. Surprisingly, she said she found the action a bit tame!!

The other development was I jokingly called her vanilla a couple of nights ago and she was really offended. She felt I had under-estimated her and it has triggered a deeper sharing of fantasies. The only remaining impediment is she feels that fantasy is often so much better than the reality. Something I cannot deny although the outstanding experiences make it worthwhile.

In terms of the OP's options though, I would still seek spanking elsewhere and be open about it if I cannot resolve this with my new partner. The trick is not to make it sound like an ultimatum.

I'm with Lonewulf, and am a bit surprised it's such a minority position. Clearly this won't be popular:

1. Let's be quite clear that TTWD is a fetish, an intrinsically sexual activity even if no genitalia are involved.
2. Nobody is ever required to engage in a sexual activity against their will. Whining, hinting, nagging, "bratting" etc is a cute way of describing emotional coercion to get your partner to engage in a sexual act they don't want. That's abusive, and will likely ruin the parts of a marriage that are good.
3. If your partner is open to you having your sexual desires met outside of marriage, or if you are comfortable satisfying your sexual desires outside of marriage illicitly, that is an option, but have the intellectual honesty to admit to yourself what you're doing.
4. This isn't a need, it's a want. If your spouse were too ill to share a satisfying sex life with you, or became disabled and couldn't have the kind of sex life you used to have, would you resort to the tactics described in the OP? Adulting involves being able to cope with not getting everything you want. So does marriage.
5. Nobody is required to stay married if they're not getting what they want out of it, but someone who leaves an otherwise good marriage because they can't get their particular kink satisfied deserves the opprobrium and, where relevant, the legal sanctions that attach to leaving a marriage for another partner.

For heaven's sake, there is a middle ground between shaming and stigmatizing people with fetishes, and trying to figure out how to pester a partner into a sex act she doesn't want. Consent matters, and there are more kinds of coercion than simple brute force. We all have the right to our boundaries, and so beyond "suck it up" I'd suggest another option: seeing a counsellor to get to the root of why one's partner's boundaries and desires are a lower priority than scratching an itch.

JessicaK

Your analysis seems to me to be rather judgemental against the OP. I don't see that he has done anything wrong whatsoever. A person is surely allowed a certain degree of legitimate persuasion before it is branded coercion. And he clearly does attach importance to his partner's feelings, that is why he is reluctant to "scratch the itch" outside of the marriage.

I've said this before but it's worth repeating: for centuries straight sex was considered so important to a marriage that not consummating one with sex negated it. Vanillas love their intercourse so much there are laws that allow people to sue someone for causing some accident that causes the lack of it and even laws that provide that lack as reasonable grounds for divorce. It was expected.....like it or not, ready or not. Given how people are I am sure that if vanillas loved spanking as much as a good fuck, it too would get elevated in importance and protected & sanctioned. So stop feeling like what you like is somehow "less than" what they like just because it's different. Vanillas are just as sex obsessed within marriage with what they prefer...and even be bullies about it.

AlanBarr

Just my 2 cents from the peanut gallery, but to my eyes it didn't seem JessicaK was judgemental of the OP, more she was judgemental about the ADVICE being given to the OP. She also mentions a middle ground between coercion and... well, that part didn't make sense to me, because it should be the middle ground between coercion and not doing anything, which would be enticing without badgering. I think that was her point, but the way she wrote it didn't track for me.

* * * *

What I find funny is how everybody seems to talk about "vanillas" like they are a different species. I even hate referring to them as vanillas as curioserto noticed upon jokingly referring to his "new relationship" (why must people fear saying "boyfriend" or "girlfriend"? If it's about someone else, and you want to be unisex about it, okay, but about yourself??? It seems like needless "walking on egg shells") as a vanilla, that they don't like being referred to as such! Big surprise there. After all, Everyone thinks vanilla is so appealing in it's apparent bland and boring presentation, I don't know why anybody wouldn't like being called that!!! (I refuse to put an emoticon to explain that emotion)

I'm not trying to rewrite the dictionary. It's a term for people in kink to simply refer to people outside of kink. As such, it's fine. I just don't go around using the term with people who don't understand our predilections, not even as a joke. What we have is a kink. A kink is clinically defined as an obsession. Yes, even vanillas can be extremely obsessive, but rationalizing extreme obsession is rarely looked upon favorably, whether you're kinky, or vanilla.

I think Jessica pointed out a very good point about "(being an adult) involves being able to (accept) not getting everything you want." In my senior years, that thought has kicked around inside my noggin and made me wonder if I wasn't too obsessive in my interests and thinking past girl friend's "boundaries and desires are a lower priority." A worthwhile, good relationship, should be the ultimate goal, shouldn't it? Kink should only be the cherry on top (that you sometimes don't get).

I'm reminded of Blake Edward's "10" where Dudley Moore's obsession made him nearly ruin what he already had by going outside his relationship with Julie Andrews for an unsatisfying "moment" with Bo Derek. The exact details are secondary to the point.

This kink we have is an emotional connection with the other person, unless you're just a sadist who just loves beating people up. This is one reason why I don't believe a vanilla can be converted. They don't understand that connection, so they just "go through the motions" which any idiot must be able to see. Thereby spanking, or being spanked by a vanilla is so ultimately unsatisfying. For this reason, I can't fathom why people try to convert vanillas.

AlanBarr I am extremely judgemental about people who don't respect others' sexual boundaries. Why aren't you? Do you find the advice to "be bullies about [getting sex]" repulsive, or do you only clap back at women criticizing men who want to manipulate women into sex acts they don't want?

Lonewulf I phrased that badly. My point is that a lot of people feel as if they are deeply broken or immoral for having a kink. That's dreadful, and causes suffering. Judging by this thread, a lot of people feel that they have the *right* to a specific kind of sex they want, which is incompatible with consent. That is also dreadful and also causes suffering: nobody is ever obliged to engage in any sexual act, which fetishplay most certainly is. How about a middle ground where we accept that some people have kinks, and we accept that those who don't share them are under no obligations whatsoever to join in?

I find your post extremely simpatico, from the weird judginess of "vanilla" (again, if we don't want to be judged for having a kink, maybe don't use derogatory terms for those who don't?) to the assertion that a strong relationship is the point. The obsession with a particular and not-mainstream sex act, over the quality of the marriage, is reminiscent of the guys in high school who thought they'd literally be physically injured if they couldn't get a girl to get them off. Paraphilias are often linked with personality disorders, but that's not permission.