In 1945 bums were there to be whacked.

Having shared a house with a group of young feminists in the late 70's, and then worked 3 years in a post-colonial African country, I had a relatively early introduction to the sexism and racism aspects of what became known as "political correctness". It's an unfortunate term, and I think the debate gets constantly yanked to either extreme by the different kinds of anger people feel in relation to it.

Relating to my diverse friends was easy, because they weren't PC fascists (if PC had been invented then), but I discovered assumptions and attitudes in myself, inculcated by my traditional private English education, that I'd never really questioned. When confronted by people (my friends and even lovers) who felt directly hurt and damaged by the continued prevalence of those racist/sexist attitudes, and when I measured those against my own , more independently-arrived-at, values (neo-hippy) I actually felt quite angry that I'd been so brainwashed by the all-male, boarding-school, ex-Empire purveyors of my exceedingly good education!

Some good has come out of the "PC" phenomenon. As Goodgulf just suggested, it has encouraged us to look more open-mindedly at our own attitudes and assumptions, and ask ourselves if they are fair, respectful and un-prejudiced. I realise that last sentence must sound, to an anti-PCer, like a perfect description of a closed-minded, unfair and prejudiced PC fascist, but perhaps that's typical of the extreme reactions this issue elicits.

Regarding the senior lawyer who complimented the junior lawyer and got "done" for it: I think the reason so many women objected was because he used a professional networking medium to make a trite, passing comment on her User photo when he didn't know her; and the Bar is a notoriously difficult workplace to get into, especially if you're female. You do the math.

Now that I'm older and more self-confident, I frequently compliment women colleagues and friends on how they look, or on the attractiveness of an article of clothing. I never get negative feedback, and I like to think it's because they can hear and see the spirit in which the remarks are made. Mind you, old habits die hard: whenever I find myself saying "Nice top", I can't help adding, "Not a bad bottom, either".

That, of course, I don't say out loud.

So much of this is about the collapse of civil society; manners and etiquette would prevent most of what "PC" tries to enforce (at least the benign stuff; there is a sinister angle as well, the Cultural Marxism piece, but that's a different issue.)

Proper manners dictate that you don't make personal remarks. If you've internalized that ... you won't tell a woman you like her tits in that shirt at a professional meeting. Proper manners dictate being cordial, friendly, and appropriate with everyone. If you've internalized that ... you won't be a jackass to people of (fill in the skin tone, religion, or regional ancestry you'd like) because you're not a jackass full stop. Proper manners dictate that you don't make sexual advances a) in the wrong context or b) once it's clear they're not welcome. If you've internalized that, you won't ask a junior colleague on a date, or anybody who's politely declined your initial overture.

So much of this just comes down to people not being decent human beings. In the wake of that, it leads to "why is there so much jackassery flying around?" discussions. The answer is usually "Because we live in a patriarchy/social justice warriors/Islamophobia" and the discussion then becomes useless, abusive and stupid. It's amazing how much of this can be avoided with good manners and basic decency.

Alas, there are times when "proper manners" make one seem standoffish. I have been told that not using the latest version of slang is an act of aggression as I am imposing my vocabulary on another - who shouldn't have to learn what non-slang words mean.

Well, at least an act of MICRO-aggression...

This is not untrue. I was brought up speaking very formal French; as in, you use 'vous' with everyone who's not a close friend or much younger. Recently, I was in a group in which I realized it was considered standoffish that I was not using 'tu' after initial introductions had been made.

I not only impose my vocabulary on others, I impose my correct grammar on them too :D

Sometimes it's the manner in which individuals indicate their anger at a perceived PC insult that can ruffle the feathers.

It is quite possible to show displeasure or discomfort in a non aggressive, judgemental or pious way.

A friendly ticking off can be extremely productive whilst at the same time being non confrontational.
A well meant and concerned word of advice can be both informal and informative.

I fear that the knowledge of having the law behind them weaponizes the scolder and often allows them to indulge in an intransigent, self satisfying power trip.

I think you put it in a nutshell. Political Correctness has nothing to do with sensitivity at all. It is everyone singing from the same PC hymn sheet, it stifles debate, there can be no honesty as there are things we are forbidden to say.

Caesar, you surely don't think that a non PC person such as myself would ever think that saying "I wouldn't mind giving you one" was complimenting a woman? In any case my objection to the "gorgeous" human rights lawyer was the fact that she humiliated her colleague in public. Much better to have sent a private email, with "Sod off grandad" or something similar. Nothing wrong with feminist women sticking up for their rights as long as they don't act like fascists. I, like the English Master, spent the seventies sharing various houses with feminist flatmates. I remember once on a Saturday morning as I was considering whether to watch the football or visit the local pub being rudely handed a mop and a brush and asked whether I preferred to clean the kitchen or the toilets. I am a lazy sod so I think it was very fair to be offered a choice. Nothing wrong with feminists.

As for multiculturism I am not a fan as it doesn't work unless everyone buys into the idea of community life and sharing. In my opinion we should emulate the French with their ideas of a secular state. The country comes first not your religion. Liberté, égalité, fraternité and if you don't like it we can send you a one way ticket to the destination of your choice. Incidentally Caesar, Indian food and Italian food are my two favourite cuisines as well!

blimp

I don't think you would say that, although some people I used to know said things like that in the 1970s, although it is at least "non-PC" surely!

I am not sure though that everyone is sure what multiculturalism is (as opposed to monoculturalism which a completely different kettle of fish) which is just the state of living in a society with a number of cultural influences or to use just one dictionary definition:

multiculturalism
/ˌmʌltɪˈkʌltʃərəˌlɪzəm/
noun
1.
the state or condition of being multicultural
2.
the policy of maintaining a diversity of ethnic cultures within a community

And, okay, you are allowed to not be a fan of it but it has nothing specifically to do with communal life and sharing or "religion coming first" over the nation and I think it does work as the United Kingdom and the United States, for any problems they have were founded as multicultual societies as were England, whose populace at its founding had numerous Anglian, Saxon, Jutish, Southern Brythonic or Cornish, North Brythonic/Cumbric (Welsh and Cumbrian), Norse, Norse-Gaelic, Cambro-Norse, Anglo-Danish and Anglo-Norwegian communities that while roughly grouped into three Norse, Anglo-Saxon and Brythonic were as different as the two cultures of say English and Punjabi, and Scotland whose ethnic groups were, and are, Gaelic, Norse-Gaelic, Anglian, Cumbric and Norse. There are problems from it.

As for "Liberté, Fraternité and Égalité" (which the sociopolitical system of France (a country I am fond of) does not tend to represent for much of its modern history), all I have to say is good old Robespierre, the leftist radical who actually first used the slogan which gained widespread use as the slogan of the Jacobin dominated Paris Commune and then Republic where sharing and communal life were de rigueur.

This was in reference to concepts defined in the 'Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen' which defined them as:

Liberty consists of being able to do anything that does not harm others: thus, the exercise of the natural rights of every man or woman has no bounds other than those that guarantee other members of society the enjoyment of these same rights.

Equality means the law must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens, being equal in its eyes, shall be equally eligible to all high offices, public positions and employments, according to their ability, and without other distinction than that of their virtues and talents.

The fraternity part wasn't as well defined but was meant in regards to comradeship with the republican revolutionaries and to be blunt, "toe the party line" and was best expressed at the time as "Fraternité ou la Mort" ("Brotherhood or death!"). This would probably be considered "politically correct" in the correct socialist-feminist sense which refered to extreme adherence to party dogma rather than specifically going to an ridiculously extreme length so as to not offend.

No offence to anyone (or is saying that too PC?) but I wouldn't throw around the term fascist lightly (especially as fascism is a definable and terrible ideology) while using the buzz-term/sneer/conspiracy theory "Cultural Marxism"* which actually originates in fascist and other far right-wing circles as a derivative of the Nazi propaganda term Kulturbolschewismus (literally "Cultural Bolshevism"). I don't think it is PC to suggest that it would be a better idea not to use an element of NSDP propaganda in a debate on political correctness that started due to two people affirming that hey don't favour the 1940s over the modern era, as soon as someone states he is a socialist; while ironically complaining about fascism. Also which is Marxist or Fascist as both are distinct and highly contradictory ideologies**? Which is a moot point anyway as no-one is pro-PC to my knowledge.

*William Lind was the man who popularized the term in the 1988 speech 'The Origins of Political Correctness' which an be found here http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/ (I now need a shower!).
The other use, of "cultural Marxism" (with a lower-case "c") Trent Schroyer in his 'The Critique of Domination: The Origins and Development of Critical Theory' which was a criticism of the Frankfurt School for not being orthodox (in a Marxist context enough). Due to this usage the "Cultural Marxist" conspiracy theory that attributes PC, Feminism and sexual education and all "societal ills" to a Marxist and traditionally, usually Jewish (Lind:"How does all of this stuff flood in here? How does it flood into our universities, and indeed into our lives today? The members of the Frankfurt School are Marxist, they are also, to a man, Jewish.") conspiracy for world domination was attached to the Frankfurt School by the far-right and gave this red-scare theory a new lease of life. Regardless this is a debunked conspiracy along with most NWO-style theories and is not taken seriously by mainstream academia... who aren't all Marxists I assure you.

** And yes I am aware that some consider them both as bad or both evil or both to have caused a lot of death (unlike mainstream capitalism of course...) or whatever but we are talking about specific ideologies on different extremes of a political spectrum.

Caesar, you just have to be a retired university lecturer!

The trouble begins when you are utterly certain your beliefs and values are right and that everyone else is wrong. I think fascists is a reasonable word to use but if it offends then lets say ideological fundamentalists. I strongly believe in kindness and good manners and that the colour of a persons skin or their religion or their sexual preferences doesn't matter but I believe we should be free to say what we think without being policed by the right-on brigade. Anyway that is my last words on the subject. Thank you for your different viewpoint Caesar.

I'll continue to say "fascists". The term is used widely these days and the vast majority of people don't communicate using whatever narrow definition academics have ascribed to the term.



Entirely agree with the above. The problem to me is not what people are saying but those who seek for whatever reason to dictate what others can and cannot say.



I assume you've never used twitter...

As far as multiculturism is concerned, in general I'm in favour of it but it's never going to work where one of the 'cultures' is underpinned by a religion that has no interest in co-existence with any other culture or religion but merely wishes to subjugate all others and whose values and attitudes are largely medieval.