Innocence

(Consider this a playful tongue-in-cheek rant, based on personal observation)

I've been sick for the past few days and had a chance to read and comment more than usual. In doing so I noticed comments on stories regarding the perceived innocence of children. Now forgive me for saying this but ...really folks? I raised two kids, am helping raise three more, and assisting with my two nieces, and also vividly remember being a kid. Kids are not innocent. I sure wasn't.

Look at adults. There's all kinds but no one ever accuses many of them of being innocent. In fact a lot of them are quite UNinnocent. Where did they come from? They were once kids. Kids are just typical shitty adults 'in training'.

Now let's consider naivete. True a child is more naive. Most outgrow it when they learn that Santa doesn't really come down the chimney, some learn it when they wake up to see mom with a heroin needle stuck in her arm but either way, it usually goes away. But I maintain that innocence is never there.

I distinctly remember indulging my quirks while in single digits, knowing they were not normal, and already concocting cover stories to hide my perverse activities. Not too innocent, huh? But while I may have been a sort of pervert prodigy, I'm sure I'm not the only one (especially here). So when you read a story about a 6 or 7 year-old cleverly devising a scheme to get a friend spanked, don't assume it's a ruse too advanced for someone that age (I did it). Or anything else for that matter. Comment away, but before typing the word "innocent" in front of "child". Think twice. Those little shits may be cute....but they're not innocent! LOL

LOL...I think the only time a child is innocent is when they are under 6 months old...LOL. Even then they quickly learn how to control their parents to get what they want just like adults do to other adults.

Being a child is when on learns what they can or cannot do, what is acceptable and what is not thus earning punishment, so all those things we do as a child set our adult lives. If we did some of the things as an adult that we did as a child we would likely all be in jail...LOL

When and if I eve speak of innocence it is only when compared to excessive cruelty by adults inflicted upon a child which is a definite mean thing to do. So a child is innocent only on a comparative scale with an adult who supposedly knows better.

CS

How many times have we heard the saying, "Kids can be cruel?" Oh yes, they certainly can be whether in school or on the playground. It's all fiction, but I still don't like abuse.

It may seem that kdpierre is being unnecessarily cynical (I would say more "curmudgeonly") but I think he may be right. Even very young children can pick up on things that might allow them to manipulate others, (especially parental units) and can be very stubborn and selfish, wanting what they want when they want it and essentially being willing to do whatever is necessary to accomplish that. The movie "The Bad Seed" comes to mind (an extreme example, of course). I know my own parents would have been shocked at some of the things I did that they were unaware of. And they can very much be downright cruel. I know because I personally experienced it from both sides. One can say that that's because they are "innocent" of the consequences of such actions though. I feel that if it weren't for our parents, teachers and other authority figures, we would have likely devolved into "Lord of the Flies". But then that's their job, isn't it? To civilize us little savages...

While perhaps "innocent" isn't the proper word, there are certainly people who are sweet-tempered, good-hearted and altruistic, they tend to see and expect the best in others. In that sense they might be a touch "naive," although in some cases their high opinion of their fellow humans may be based primarily on faith in human nature rather than all of their real-world experience. (Elwood P. Dowd, the character played by Jimmy Stewart in the motion picture "Harvey," is an extreme adult version of this type, although of course his best friend is an invisible [to most other people] anthropomorphic white rabbit over six feet tall.)

I've come across children like this, some of them relatives but most of them young campers at a Christian summer camp I worked at for over a decade, so I know they do exist, preteen kids who are good-natured, caring and considerate. Of course, there are also children who are devilishly full of mischief, tricky and even manipulative (fictionalized versions of them often work well as characters in spanking-oriented stories), then there are some who are truly antisocial and behave negatively, possibly even violently.

I'm hardly claiming that anyone should be trusting of a young kid merely because he/she is a child, but automatically assuming negative things about him/her isn't justified either... --C.K.

I heard on the radio (BBC radio 4) - I think it was The Infinite Monkey Cage (a lighthearted science programme) about an experiment where they put 3 year old children in a room with a toy and told them not to look at or touch it. Then they were left alone for a short while. When asked later if they had disobeyed %50 lied.

However, when the same experiment was conducted on children aged 5 - EVERY SINGLE ONE LIED!

Says it all really!

There was a piece of video that went viral that I saw in passing wherein a little girl, about four or five, had eaten a cupcake that she was not allowed to have. She looked at the camera (or cellphone) and flat-out denied eating the forbidden treat with chocolate frosting still smeared on the corners of her mouth! It was adorable but the implication was clear: liar, liar, pants on fire. I wonder if she got punished in some way for the blatant lie or got off because she was so cute...

As I was reading teh original post I couldn't help but thinking of one Disney character who stated, "Hey I'm a kid, I'm supposed to be irresponsible".

The cupcake story sounds adorable. I saw a youtube video where a little girl had been playing with Mom's makeup and had lipstick smeared all over the place and denied it until Mommy told ehr to look in the mirror.

I think CrimsonKid has it absolutely right. Innocence is relative. Some people can be very innocent in some matters but quite the opposite in others. Moreover, my impression is that there are more people in management, for example, who have too little faith in other people than who have too much - because showing faith in people is motivating and showing distrust is demotivating. As for kids, yes, some are innocent about some things, but one who has no experience of being bullied, for example, or who tends to believe what people tell him/her, may still be developing sexual interests and quirks!

The cupcake story reminds me of an incident with my eldest grandson. The fire in my lounge has cream coloured pebbles. When he was about four he found a blue feltpen and wrote an. 'H' on every stone.

I walked in the room several minutes later and was aghast to see my lovely fireplace adorned with bright blue H's.

"Who did that, Heath?" I asked.

He looked at me with wide eyed innocence and said, "it wasn't me, nannie!"