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The War to End All Wars

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njrick
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USA
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#1 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 00:32
Ninety-four years ago, at 11:11 on 11/11, the Great War ground to a conclusion with the declaration of an armistice. As deadly as it was, with the use of machine guns, airplanes, submarines, armored tanks and poison gas, it failed to live up to its billing as "the war to end war" by deterring future armed conflicts. It's gratifying to see the LSF commemorating the dead with poppies on Armistice Day, (which we in the US have re-fashioned as Veterans' Day). May the human race some day learn to resolve conflict without resort to warfare.

CrimsonKidCK
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#2 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 00:59
The Treaty of Versailles was a classic example of failure to 'win the peace' by the victors of World War I, some of whom had signed secret treaties outlining their designs for territorial expansion during that conflict, a concept in direct opposition to the officially stated Allied war aims.

Unfortunately, the expression "the war to end war" turned out to be merely an American propaganda slogan, although ironically it was undoubtedly a sincere, idealistic belief by some Americans at the time.

I'm rather cynical about the U.S.A.'s involvement in World War I, which IMHO was a major mistake, so I'd rather conceive of the holiday as "Veterans' Day."

Of course, AFAIC any war's ending is a positive occurrence of any by itself... --C.K.

canadianspankee
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Canada
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#3 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 01:13
Whatever we call the day, I never remember the reasons why the world put itself in such a situation as much as I remember the young men and women who stepped up and perhaps gave their lives for something they may not have even understood.

However any country was involved, and the reasons why they got involved, are not to be remembered as much as the men and women who did what their nations asked them and gave their lives. I admired such ones, while at the same time am very happy my generation, (at least in Canada), was not called upon to put their lives on the line in such a massive war.

CrimsonKidCK
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#4 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 02:19
canadianspankee:
However any country was involved, and the reasons why they got involved, are not to be remembered as much as the men and women who did what their nations asked them and gave their lives. I admired such ones, while at the same time am very happy my generation, (at least in Canada), was not called upon to put their lives on the line in such a massive war.

Well, as a member of the British Commonwealth, Canada entered both world wars almost immediately, at the same time that the United Kingdom did--so Canadians were fighting in those conflicts much earlier than Americans were.

Canada may not have had outright military conscription, but many thousands of Canadian servicepeople nonetheless fought on the Allied side during both world wars.

In the ill-fated Allied defeat at Dieppe in August of 1942 (World War II), most of the invading troops, and therefore of course most of those killed, wounded and captured, were Canadian soldiers.

If you meant that the 'baby boomer' generation in Canada hasn't been involved in such massive wars, that's obviously accurate--but it's pretty much true for all nationalities, since there haven't been any conflicts as inclusive and far-ranging as the world wars since the end of World War II in 1945... --C.K.

Goodgulf
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#5 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 02:32
It wasn't at 11:11, but 11:00 - or rather it was 10:00 local time when the ceasefire happened on the Western Front. And the last British soldier to die in that war died during the last offensive - which ended at 2 minutes before the ceasefire.

Here's a little known fact (one that I make a point of repeating every 11th):
The war almost didn't end at 11:00, 11/11 (London time). It was supposed to end at the end of business that day so that the British PM could rise in the House of Commons and announce the peace, but one of the chief British negotiators didn't like the idea of another full day of fighting and called his cousin (King George V) to ask his cousin's opinion. King George V recommended that the fighting end as soon as possible.

As a result, the British PM rushed out a press release at 10:20 am stating that war would end at 11:00 am and thus missed his chance to stand in the House of Commons and announce the end of the war. And the officer who made that decision was the only one of his rank not to receive a generous pension at the end of the war - with no reason given why he was not awarded a pension.

Goodgulf
(who in real life is named after a great uncle who didn't return from war)

Goodgulf
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#6 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 02:38
CrimsonKidCK:
Well, as a member of the British Commonwealth, Canada entered both world wars almost immediately, at the same time that the United Kingdom did

A slight correction:
in 1914 Canada, Australia, South Africa and the rest were part of the British Empire. They had domestic democracy but weren't full nations until the The Statute of Westminster was passed in 1931. As such they were involved in the war from the moment the UK declared war on Germany.

During WWII, if I remember correctly, each of the Commonwealth Nations declared war a symbolic day or two after the UK did - just so the history books would recognise that they had declared war on their own and not as part of the British Empire.

Goodgulf
(who is a history bluff)

Iconoclast13
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USA
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#7 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 11:48
njrick:
May the human race some day learn to resolve conflict without resort to warfare.

I would definitely like to second that.

While we're on the subject, here's a little something for all you history buffs. There is one condition of the Treaty of Versailles that took a little while to be fulfilled. Part VIII, Section II, Article 246 of the Treaty reads: "Within the same period Germany will hand over to His Britannic Majesty's Government the skull of the Sultan Mkwawa which was removed from the Protectorate of German East Africa and taken to Germany".

Sultan Mkwawa was the leader of the Wahhehe tribe in German-controlled Tanganyika. During WWI, he led his people in a revolt against the Germans, but was captured and killed by them. Mkwawa's skull was then sent to Germany as a souvenir. When the war ended, his people wanted the skull back so they persuaded their allies the British to put this demand into the treaty. Unfortunately, the skull had by that time become lost.

The story does have a happy - if somewhat morbid - conclusion. The skull was eventually located in the Bremen Anthropological Museum in Bremen, Germany. On July 9, 1954, the skull was returned to Tanganyika and handed over to his descendants.

Guy
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USA
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#8 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 13:22
njrick:
which we in the US have re-fashioned as Veterans' Day

And thanks to NJRick and the LSF management for reminding us USA folks that all holidays don't happen on a Monday or a Friday. Tomorrow is when we celebrate Veteran's Day here in the USA, but the REAL holiday is today, and there is a historic reason for that date.

Last century when I was a kid, Armistice Day was a solemn occasion. At 11 AM, us schoolkids would be herded into the school auditorium where a veteran would play a haunting version of taps for his lost buddies. Some of us still had gaps in our families from WW II, so there would be a few real tears among my teachers and classmates.

Outside, would be veterans selling the then-ubiquitous artificial poppies. Our parents had given most of us a few cents to buy poppies. Then school was out for the second half of the day. I suppose that was when many towns had parades, but I lived in a large city so that wasn't my experience.

Lincoln
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England
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#9 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 16:54
I attended our local Church this morning for the Remembrance Day Service, (I am not a regular Church goer). The Church (we are only a small village) was packed, again with people like me who aren't regular visitors.

The Service was dignified and in no way triumphal. Rather it was commemorating the dead and praying for peace in the world.

It is always good to take oneself out of one's usual environment, and to contemplate the horrors of what has past. If only some of our politicians would do just that before committing our countries to insane adventures.

Seegee
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Australia
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#10 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 19:38
I can remember a history teacher in high school giving us a brief rundown on some of the weapons and methods of warfare throughout the ages finishing off with the comment 'We have't really progressed since the stone age, we've just got better at killing each other.'

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