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Mentoring (OT thread fragment)

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Sebastian
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USA
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#21 | Posted: 13 Apr 2011 05:22
If I wrote a story, my grammar would be terrible. I certainly have great ideas for a story, but my grammar and sentence structure would be far from perfect. I wouldn't mind the administration to correct, change and for that matter, do whatever you want with it. as long as the idea and plot is intact.

patxi
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England
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#22 | Posted: 13 Apr 2011 11:16
rollin:
So if you wish to convey the thoughts of others in the story 1st person is not the right choice.

Quite, it can be done but only if the thoughts of the 2nd person are conveyed in conversation to the 1st person so that the reader can pick up what the 2nd person thinks or feels. Not easy and the conversation must be handled carefully.

Regarding writing in the third person, to me it seems important to establish the main party first, both in conversation and description, before delving into the mind of another party. This can take over several pages or a whole chapter. Shoving more than one participant in a story too soon leads to confusion in the mind of the reader and can distract attention from the main focus.

This sounds horribly academic but it pays dividends to see how all the great writers handle it. I can only say that when writing 'Never too late', I simply felt instinctively that the character of Arthur should be kept as a shadowy, distant, figure almost until the end. An earlier introduction would have interfered with the reader's interest in Hilda's slow build-up of confidence. Well anyway that's how I see it!

CrimsonKidCK
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USA
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#23 | Posted: 13 Apr 2011 14:25
patxi:
rollin: So if you wish to convey the thoughts of others in the story 1st person is not the right choice.
Quite, it can be done but only if the thoughts of the 2nd person are conveyed in conversation to the 1st person so that the reader can pick up what the 2nd person thinks or feels. Not easy and the conversation must be handled carefully.

Well, in RL a person ends up figuring out (or at least trying to figure out) the emotions being felt by other people, at least those who are fairly close to him/her emotionally, quite frequently.

In a first-person narrative, you can't write: "Bill felt highly embarrassed at being totally nude in a room full of stylishly-dressed women."

However, you can write: "Based on his flushed face and downcast gaze, it was apparent that Bill felt highly embarrassed at being totally nude in a room full of stylishly-dressed women."

The words "to me" could be inserted after "apparent" in order to make it 'crystal clear' that the narrator here is referring to her own individual perception, but IMHO that's not essential--when using the first person, AFAIC it's pretty much given that words like "seemingly," "obviously," "apparently," etc. refer to the narrator's personal perspective.

You can't write: "Julie was experiencing a self-satisfying sense of accomplishment after corporally disciplining her cousin."

However, you can write: "Knowing Julie as well as I did, it was obvious that she was experiencing a self-satisfying sense of accomplishment after corporally disciplining her cousin."

(Again, there's the implicit "to me," in this case after "obvious," which could be made explicit at the author's discretion.)

Direction conversation clearly would work also:

"Damn it all, Rhonda," Bill told me as multiple pairs of feminine eyes were focused on his ruby red behind, "I feel so totally embarrassed, standing here in my birthday suit in this room full of nicely-dressed women."

"Paddling you so soundly in front of my girlfriends," Julie teasingly informed her nude cousin as she patted his glowing derriere, "That's given me such a satisfying sense of personal accomplishment."

Of course, in that last example it's assumed that the narrator was present to hear (or at least overhear) the conversation.


I find it kind of fun to occasionally experiment with different first-person points of view (I'm not claiming that I do it especially well, just that I enjoy trying to do so once in a while)--the narrator doesn't necessarily have to be one of the main characters (which in a spanking story would usually be the spanker and spankee) in the story, which is one way of avoiding overusing the "I did this" and "I felt that" repetition of "I" throughout a first-person narrative.

Of course, third person (omniscient) is probably the easiest point of view to start out with, there's no need to explain or at least suggest how certain things are known to the narrator... --C.K.

saetana
Female Member

England
Posts: 89
#24 | Posted: 14 Apr 2011 05:43
I used to write a diary some years ago, a blog you might say in the days before the word existed, about my spanking adventures, I used to send it to my online friends via email to save constant retyping. Being a diary it was naturally written in first person, which is what puts me off trying to write an actual story, the format I used is too casual (in my opinion at least), although it was fine for grammar and spelling. I can write factual stuff with no problems, guides, reports etc but most stories on here are of a high standard and it is daunting for a potential new writer. I'm also concerned about actually describing a spanking/strapping/caning/whatever, I don't like overly long desciptions of smacks and ouches but then again no description at all is just as bad.

I wonder if the advice for writing this kind of story is the same as for any type of fiction or are there some points erotica writers particularly need to bear in mind?

Goodgulf
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Canada
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#25 | Posted: 14 Apr 2011 05:54
CrimsonKidCK:
Of course, third person (omniscient) is probably the easiest point of view to start out with, there's no need to explain or at least suggest how certain things are known to the narrator...

Which is one of the reasons why I would advise not using the first person for a first story. It's another hoop to jump through.

Goodgulf
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Canada
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#26 | Posted: 14 Apr 2011 06:04
saetana:
I wonder if the advice for writing this kind of story is the same as for any type of fiction or are there some points erotica writers particularly need to bear in mind?

I'll repeat something that Stephen King has said - sometimes less is more.

Have you ever read Stephen King's book Carrie? It's about an abused teen with special powers and it was made into a movie. Carrie is the weird girl you knew in high school - so King never described her. She's the central character in the book and she never gets a physical description. Why? Because we all knew that weird kid in high school and everyone who reads that fills in that physical description by thinking back to that weird kid they knew. The picture the readers form in their minds is more complete than anything King could write so he didn't write one.

I've read stories where I was told every possible measurement for a character - from shoe size to exact length of her skirt to her bra size to her weight in either ounces or grams. That's more detail than I need. Reading all that detail generally distracts from the story, unless special effort is made to work it in the narrative.

Goodgulf

barretthunter
Male Author

England
Posts: 1015
#27 | Posted: 14 Apr 2011 20:48
First on grammar - most of it helps avoid confusion and is therefore valuable. However, I agree that it's a terrible shame if someone doesn't post for fear of making a few mistakes. I had a long-running argument with a fringe publisher who insisted that it was ALWAYS wrong to put a comma before "and". Bollocks. Ovaries. There is no such generally accepted rule and it's easy to find examples where the lack of a comma before "and" makes a sentence thoroughly confusing.

One tip I'd strongly recommend to beginners is, even if you write in the third person ("Don slowed down as he approached the door"), to keep asking yourself "Whose point of view is this from?" Then the account becomes much more interesting and credible - and tells you much more about Don as he notices Donna.

On mentoring, if anyone would like tips on poetry and verse, I'd be happy to advise.

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