God Perspective

I don't know if this has been brought up before, and I hope that as a new author, that this isn't unwelcome. I'm writing because this is something that I struggled with up until roughly a year ago, when I began working on my first romance novel (which never took off the ground because I wound up with too many characters and cannot write consistently). I sought the advice of several people, and there was one piece of it that really got drilled into my head: God perspective doesn't work well in romantic fiction. And honestly, I don't think that it works well in spanking fiction either.

Part of me wants to go through and comment about this on (the majority of) stories that I read. Most of those which are written in third person have this particular problem; the author apparently wishes to show the thoughts and perspective of both the spanker and the spankee, and therefore "head hops," writing what the spanker can see, and what the spankee can feel.

I find it jarring.

While it is certain that there are some who enjoy these "head hops" so that they can get the best of both worlds, I'm wondering whether or not there are others who feel the same way that I do? After roughly the third of my Foster Forest stories, I began to work hard to keep each story coming from one perspective, and if I couldn't, I would divide the story so that another person could give their thoughts or their visual of what was happening. I've gone so far as to experiment with this, especially in the first story in the second Foster Forest series. I think I managed to give an interesting perspective, as I hope you'll see once the story has been loaded.

I'm very curious to know how others feel about this. But please understand, I know that most of us aren't professional writers here. I know that I'm not, other than a poem that I wrote when I was fifteen. And unless you count the money that I make from online writing (which I don't). We all come from different backgrounds and have different experiences. That's part of what makes this so interesting.

As a reader, what do you like? As a writer, what comes more naturally to you? Will you ever read stories the same way again? (I know I didn't! Did you know that J.K. Rowling head-hops throughout the Harry Potter series?)

My editor (Janine) has been pointing out this very tendency in my own writing.

There are a couple reasons why I think I tend to do this. The most obvious is that - as a switch - I'm always tempted to explore the scene from both sides, and I feel that makes the story richer. The other is that I'm trying to appeal to as wide an audience as possible with my writing; I don't want to alienate doms, subs, men, or women. So I try and make sure everyone gets to visit a headspace that they'll enjoy.

Now, is this a good thing? I'm not sure. Like you said, it can be jarring and interrupt the reader's connection with the character who they thought was the protagonist. However, I've also had people tell me to try getting into other character's heads (especially when physically describing the characters; describing your sub is going to be much sexier if you're doing it in the dom's thoughts). Moving away from spanking fiction, I've also read professionally published, mainstream novels that take both approaches.

While I've had at least one professional editor tell me that head-hopping is considered unprofessional, it doesn't bother me personally unless it really goes against the grain or atmosphere of the story. I've written stories that head hopped, and I've written ones that haven't. I've enjoyed stories that head hopped, and I've enjoyed ones that didn't. It all depends on the story.

Storm. I want to welcome you again to the site and for making such a provocative and thoughtful post. I was unaware of your work though obviously many others here were. But I already like your style.

I must respectfully disagree with your proposition however. In the right context I enjoy a writer opening a window into a characters head and allowing me to peek inside. It seems to me to be a great way to establish motivation and POV not to mention creating a short cut for the writer to use to advance the story. While I can certainly agree that in some cases the technique is used poorly and can end up being a distraction or simply 'filler'; it would seem to me that the choice to use it or not is simply part of the writers art. Ya takes your chances as it were.

An interesting point that I hope many other regulars will speak too. Grin!

I agree with Twisted8. I write very few stories in first person. In fact, only one, Mom Said No, comes to mind at the moment. The vast majority of my writing is done third person omniscient because it allows me to develop more than one character and provides the reader insight in to the thoughts and motives of multiple characters. Perhaps that's why I enjoyed the Harry Potter series so much - it allowed me to really get to know many characters instead of just one.

Sorry Storm but I also disagree with your point made. To me knowing what both sides of the story are thinking is one of the most interesting parts of the story. Like Beth says above it gives insight and understanding to the characters. Without that insight I believe a lot of stories would lose their impact and attractiveness to many readers.

One of the reasons that I like working in serials so much is because I can write one part from the perspective of one character, and the next part from the perspective of the next character. I know that for me personally, the head-hopping is incredibly difficult, and I find it harder to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the story.

It's interesting to know how other people feel about it. I cannot write with continuity if I'm continually going from one head to another, although the story that I'm currently working on makes it incredibly tempting to do so, because the character who's POV I'm writing is one I'm making up on the fly, while the others had characterizations and personalities before I began the series.

By the way, I'm not talking about first vs. third person. I cannot write first person to save my life. It always comes across sloppy, and I think that it takes an appreciable level of skill to be able to really pull it off. I've read several first person stories here that have blown me away. Some of the writers on this site are straight up amazing.

My point is that it is possible to stay with a single character throughout a story even when you are following them in third person. I'm hoping that my new series will be a really good example of this, but I'm not satisfied right now with the quality of the writing, especially as I read back some of my older work. It isn't sufficiently emotional for my taste, and the story itself is highly emotional. I hope that when it's loaded everybody will enjoy it. This series has turned into quite a pet project for me, based on a family that I'm currently role playing (about half of the members of that family. Yikes!).

Anyway, it's interesting to hear what others think. I know that my opinion hasn't changed. Changing from one perspective to another mid-stream is very uncomfortable for me as a reader, and now even more so as a writer, since I've been practicing it the other way!

Maybe it's just me, but I find the average reader prefers things the other way.

I did an experiment once - I did two versions of a story. While the plot was slightly different between versions, the main difference was one had more head hopping than the other. The first sight it appeared on allowed me to attach polls and I asked which one people liked better.

The head hopper won. It wasn't even close. On this site, the head hopper has many, many more comments than the other. When I message the commentators and ask if they've read the other one and which did they prefer they say they like the head hopper.

Then again, head hopping isn't godlike knowledge - or it doesn't have to be. I generally focus on one viewpoint and I often don't give away the other character's motivations until the Reveal. For example, there's one story where two girls are dressed the same for halloween and they switch places - meaning the wrong girl accidentally gets a spanking. It's not until the girls have switched back and are sure that they got away with it that the reader learns that the mother knew which girl was which and intentionally spanked the one that wasn't her daughter.

I've tried experimenting a bit with "one and only one's character's perspective" and I'm not sure if those stories really work - which is one of the reasons I find the first person hard to do. I've got a series (Bamber - five parts, each part inspired by an Amber novel) where I stayed first person throughout it. The series clocks in at about 68,000 words and writing in the first person was a stretch there. I've done a few others in the first person (including one that mixes film noir and wizardry) and they've been a challenge to write.

Then again, it may be a question of developing skills. I can see how keeping things from one point of view forces you to find new ways of conveying information. Those skills can be useful.

Goodgulf

Which two stories are they? I'd like to have a look.

I have personally noticed that when I changed my writing strategy and stopped the hopping, I got more comments and more personal e-mails on the overall quality of the work that I was putting out. The difference was pretty profound, but then I'm a small-timer whose one advantage is that I've been around for... Well, about twelve years, I think.

What's interesting is that I've noticed that some authors can pull it off very well. While others make me seasick the story is rocking back and forth so fast. There are effective ways to do this and I've used some of them myself (such as changing perspectives and retelling the story from the other perspective, or allowing time to pass and then change. I do that a fair bit with Becky and Peter).

Also, I really, really hope that y'all will read Foster Forest part 16. Even I think that the reason for the punishment is pretty much contrived (but that's me reading it back a year after having written it and a lot has changed in my style in the meantime), but the perspective that I used to tell the story was so much fun that it really gave me a different attitude to experimenting with a single-character perspective.

Let me know where to look for those stories and hopefully I can find them. I'm definitely curious now!

Just to add to this discussion...

I work as an editor for a romance publisher, and within the publishing industry it is definitely frowned upon to "head-hop" between characters within the same scene. That means if John is spanking Mary, you're not supposed to know John's feelings and how sexy Mary looks to him and then switch to Mary's feelings and how sexy John looks to her, all within a short span of time (i.e. a few paragraphs). The simplest way to be sure you're avoiding this as you're writing is to imagine yourself looking at the scene through only one particular character's eyes. And yes, this can be done very effectively in 3rd person (not just 1st); in fact, "3rd person deep" is the preferred narrative style for most publishers.

However...it IS possible to head-hop in a way that is less jarring to the reader. We insert scene breaks (****) whenever the POV shifts, and this can happen several times within the same chapter. So start the scene with John's POV as he spanks her up to a point, then insert a scene break, and continue now with the remainder of the spanking in Mary's POV. Or write a chapter in John's POV and then a chapter in Mary's. And even though I'm saying a particular character's "POV", I still mean in 3rd person not 1st. (Hope that's not too confusing!)

Obviously, some writers are more adept at pulling this off than others, and too many scene breaks will feel like you're bouncing back and forth at a tennis match! And who wants to read two chapters about the same spanking? As far as the stories here in the library, I'm not nearly as critical when reading for enjoyment rather than for work; hopping from John to Mary can often enrich a story's insights, as long as it's not done in yo-yo fashion. I think it all comes back to a writer's skill and what a reader is hoping to get out of a story.

My suggestion, Storm, when an author makes you seasick, and maybe I'm guilty of that, is to send a popup message and let the author know. Provide useful information besides the fact that you were needing Dramamine before you got to the ending. Based on your forum posts, I believe you could do that quite well. You might not want to put such things in a comment that can be read by all, but that is another option. As a writer, I would like to know when what I write is not working. That way I can improve. Probably other writers would like the same sort of feedback.